1
00:00:07,610 --> 00:00:04,700
oh good morning everybody thank you all

2
00:00:09,650 --> 00:00:07,620
for coming my name is Sam shamea 'um the

3
00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:09,660
deputy for International Space Station

4
00:00:12,740 --> 00:00:11,370
here at headquarters and it's my

5
00:00:15,740 --> 00:00:12,750
pleasure this morning to introduce dr.

6
00:00:19,010 --> 00:00:15,750
Jessica von Puttkamer he started his

7
00:00:22,220 --> 00:00:19,020
career at NASA in 1962 at the Marshall

8
00:00:25,790 --> 00:00:22,230
Space Flight Center when dr. Wernher von

9
00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:25,800
Braun brought him over from Germany he

10
00:00:30,290 --> 00:00:28,050
worked on the Apollo program it was

11
00:00:32,630 --> 00:00:30,300
essential in the propulsion area he also

12
00:00:34,790 --> 00:00:32,640
worked Skylab he's also as you can tell

13
00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:34,800
by this presentation today has worked

14
00:00:39,260 --> 00:00:37,770
for many years on missions beyond the

15
00:00:41,690 --> 00:00:39,270
earth and beyond the munis and

16
00:00:43,610 --> 00:00:41,700
especially to Mars he has quite a bit of

17
00:00:46,279 --> 00:00:43,620
experience around the agency including

18
00:00:48,709 --> 00:00:46,289
dealing with with with the Russians he's

19
00:00:50,900 --> 00:00:48,719
the author of many books he's consulted

20
00:00:53,420 --> 00:00:50,910
on many movies and series inspect the

21
00:01:00,170 --> 00:00:53,430
first Star Trek series consulted on that

22
00:01:01,689 --> 00:01:00,180
I had to mention that so I think that's

23
00:01:05,210 --> 00:01:01,699
about it he started here at headquarters

24
00:01:08,990 --> 00:01:05,220
1974 and he's worked several positions

25
00:01:10,310 --> 00:01:09,000
including mission planning and as well

26
00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:10,320
as international space station program

27
00:01:25,190 --> 00:01:22,030
hey thank you very much it's a nice

28
00:01:27,320 --> 00:01:25,200
painting there by pet rolling and it's

29
00:01:29,690 --> 00:01:27,330
really a photograph and you'll kind of

30
00:01:31,580 --> 00:01:29,700
see a sweet person said you don't

31
00:01:34,100 --> 00:01:31,590
fortunately see whether they are male or

32
00:01:37,069 --> 00:01:34,110
female there must be at least one female

33
00:01:39,260 --> 00:01:37,079
in there and one of an American in the

34
00:01:41,899 --> 00:01:39,270
middle there is ASA and on the right

35
00:01:47,030 --> 00:01:41,909
side is a Russian and the person who

36
00:01:50,210 --> 00:01:47,040
took that photo is a Chinese anyway I

37
00:01:52,940 --> 00:01:50,220
gave I gave this presentation a few

38
00:01:54,289 --> 00:01:52,950
weeks ago in Huntsville it's the

39
00:01:56,630 --> 00:01:54,299
International Space development

40
00:01:59,300 --> 00:01:56,640
conference there and some people they

41
00:02:03,499 --> 00:01:59,310
don't ask me to do it again here at

42
00:02:07,219 --> 00:02:03,509
headquarters and you will be amazed or

43
00:02:09,740 --> 00:02:07,229
some of you but how much effort has

44
00:02:13,190 --> 00:02:09,750
already gone into piloted Mars mission

45
00:02:16,210 --> 00:02:13,200
studies into the in those 60 years

46
00:02:20,869 --> 00:02:16,220
there have been countless studies both

47
00:02:23,059 --> 00:02:20,879
NASA internal and contracted by NASA

48
00:02:26,839 --> 00:02:23,069
with industry and also by external

49
00:02:30,290 --> 00:02:26,849
groupings I can hint only on a few of

50
00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:30,300
them on the major studies and in kind of

51
00:02:38,780 --> 00:02:32,970
at the end come up with some concluding

52
00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:38,790
remarks a full text of my study is

53
00:02:45,559 --> 00:02:42,090
available and on demand and I can also

54
00:02:48,820 --> 00:02:45,569
provide copies of all the slides and I

55
00:02:55,910 --> 00:02:48,830
understand they are recording my

56
00:02:59,559 --> 00:02:55,920
valuable words right now on video okay

57
00:03:07,100 --> 00:02:59,569
let's get started ways that are here

58
00:03:11,630 --> 00:03:07,110
this year this is what we are talking

59
00:03:13,580 --> 00:03:11,640
about Mars force planet from the Sun

60
00:03:17,390 --> 00:03:13,590
further away from the Sun than the earth

61
00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:17,400
is and a great attractor because it's

62
00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:21,530
been fascinating mankind since the early

63
00:03:28,090 --> 00:03:25,290
you know early antiquity it's caused the

64
00:03:32,830 --> 00:03:28,100
myth and legends and religions and

65
00:03:38,930 --> 00:03:32,840
astrological definitions to come about

66
00:03:44,559 --> 00:03:38,940
it became a person a god-like person god

67
00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:44,569
of war or fire of harvesting of

68
00:03:54,170 --> 00:03:49,850
fertility and of course also of macho

69
00:03:57,620 --> 00:03:54,180
masculinity today we know it's a planet

70
00:04:00,759 --> 00:03:57,630
and its seek really a neighbor to earth

71
00:04:05,870 --> 00:04:00,769
it's a closest planet on which we could

72
00:04:09,409 --> 00:04:05,880
build up and a settlement eventually it

73
00:04:12,589 --> 00:04:09,419
has resources lots of resources we know

74
00:04:16,670 --> 00:04:12,599
now today has water even liquid water it

75
00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:16,680
looks like and it therefore means it

76
00:04:21,190 --> 00:04:18,570
could have a head life or it may

77
00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:21,200
actually have life in a microbial form

78
00:04:26,390 --> 00:04:24,450
so it's been a great attractor for

79
00:04:26,909 --> 00:04:26,400
science and of course for the general

80
00:04:29,230 --> 00:04:26,919
public

81
00:04:32,740 --> 00:04:29,240
countless science-fiction stories have

82
00:04:35,940 --> 00:04:32,750
been written about it it's a focus of

83
00:04:39,700 --> 00:04:35,950
pop culture I just remember Orson Welles

84
00:04:48,010 --> 00:04:39,710
and his mouse panic he caused with his

85
00:04:50,140 --> 00:04:48,020
radio message one day and so no wonder

86
00:04:58,980 --> 00:04:50,150
that people have been asking where can

87
00:05:08,890 --> 00:05:02,379
oops no I want to want to go the other

88
00:05:11,950 --> 00:05:08,900
way okay astronomers with their inferior

89
00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:11,960
telescopes saw these types of pictures

90
00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:13,610
this one comes from Giovanni

91
00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:18,370
Schiaparelli 1877 who thought he saw

92
00:05:25,620 --> 00:05:21,650
straight lines on Mars which he in

93
00:05:29,890 --> 00:05:25,630
Italian called Canali and that was later

94
00:05:33,310 --> 00:05:29,900
mistranslated in it to mean you know

95
00:05:36,850 --> 00:05:33,320
water channels he really meant grooves

96
00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:36,860
and therefore with some other people

97
00:05:44,950 --> 00:05:40,970
seeing the same thing Percival Lowell

98
00:05:46,840 --> 00:05:44,960
for example the legend or the

99
00:05:50,230 --> 00:05:46,850
expectation that they actually may be

100
00:05:53,830 --> 00:05:50,240
life on Mars and lots of water came

101
00:05:58,170 --> 00:05:53,840
about in addition you could see seasonal

102
00:06:01,930 --> 00:05:58,180
changes you saw the darkening areas

103
00:06:05,050 --> 00:06:01,940
lightening up again the poles the polar

104
00:06:06,940 --> 00:06:05,060
caps changed their sizes and so people

105
00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:06,950
thought that the mouse was it quite a

106
00:06:14,860 --> 00:06:10,370
livable planet but what really turned

107
00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:14,870
out in 1965 is what you see in the upper

108
00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:18,770
right corner when maryna for the first

109
00:06:25,450 --> 00:06:23,810
probe from Earth flew by Mars and took

110
00:06:27,340 --> 00:06:25,460
the first picture and one of the first

111
00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:27,350
pictures is up here in the corner it

112
00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:30,289
shows just a cratered surface and no

113
00:06:38,390 --> 00:06:35,210
straight lines no ground cover no client

114
00:06:41,719 --> 00:06:38,400
lives no animals no signs of Intel

115
00:06:44,659 --> 00:06:41,729
agents having duck water channels and so

116
00:06:47,900 --> 00:06:44,669
on so a mariner 4 to a lot of people was

117
00:06:49,939 --> 00:06:47,910
great disappointment who actually put in

118
00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:49,949
their imagination much more into Mars

119
00:06:58,520 --> 00:06:54,090
and ex vivo Sarah later on Mariner 9

120
00:07:00,740 --> 00:06:58,530
became the first orbiter in 1971 it

121
00:07:05,379 --> 00:07:00,750
still is here mariner 9 is still

122
00:07:08,689 --> 00:07:05,389
orbiting Mars and it brought a survey

123
00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:08,699
whole series of a picture SPECT with

124
00:07:14,379 --> 00:07:10,410
shoulders at mass still was very

125
00:07:17,900 --> 00:07:14,389
interesting that marina for saw only a

126
00:07:21,820 --> 00:07:17,910
small piece of it and that they are many

127
00:07:25,730 --> 00:07:21,830
many interesting things and puzzles and

128
00:07:28,189 --> 00:07:25,740
miracle type things on Mars Mars is so

129
00:07:30,050 --> 00:07:28,199
much smaller than Earth but it's got the

130
00:07:34,100 --> 00:07:30,060
biggest mountain in the whole solar

131
00:07:36,469 --> 00:07:34,110
system and it's got this Valles

132
00:07:38,779 --> 00:07:36,479
Marineris the biggest canyon in the

133
00:07:41,510 --> 00:07:38,789
solar system much larger than anything

134
00:07:44,719 --> 00:07:41,520
we have on earth or anywhere it is so

135
00:07:47,029 --> 00:07:44,729
all of those questions still have not

136
00:07:49,460 --> 00:07:47,039
have not been fully answered by science

137
00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:49,470
and so scientists are very interested in

138
00:07:56,510 --> 00:07:53,370
getting their in situ themselves not

139
00:07:59,450 --> 00:07:56,520
just do a remote reconnaissance which is

140
00:08:05,450 --> 00:07:59,460
pretty good if you want to get a kind of

141
00:08:08,089 --> 00:08:05,460
a localized data but if you want a

142
00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:08,099
global view of the whole planet you

143
00:08:12,740 --> 00:08:09,810
either have to launch very very many

144
00:08:20,810 --> 00:08:12,750
unmanned probes or take a human there

145
00:08:25,580 --> 00:08:20,820
who can then start exploring another

146
00:08:31,350 --> 00:08:29,340
in those 60 years in normal innumerable

147
00:08:37,020 --> 00:08:31,360
studies have done I have only a few of

148
00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:37,030
those typical space ships which were

149
00:08:48,390 --> 00:08:42,370
developed after the feasibility of going

150
00:08:52,350 --> 00:08:48,400
to Mars first was hinted at by Werner

151
00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:52,360
von Braun who had shown with his v2

152
00:08:58,650 --> 00:08:55,810
missile that rocket propulsion can

153
00:09:02,220 --> 00:08:58,660
actually fly outside the atmosphere and

154
00:09:04,560 --> 00:09:02,230
work in in the airless space and so

155
00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:04,570
people started to ask well if that is

156
00:09:11,100 --> 00:09:07,090
possible can we one day go to Mars and

157
00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:11,110
it's set of a whole flood of studies

158
00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:14,650
throughout the decades and just a few of

159
00:09:27,230 --> 00:09:20,890
them are here Verner evolves the first

160
00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:27,240
one who in 1948 did a serious techno

161
00:09:35,250 --> 00:09:29,530
scientifically acceptable study on how

162
00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:35,260
to go to Mars he did he wrote a novel

163
00:09:39,329 --> 00:09:37,930
first a technically tale he called it we

164
00:09:42,420 --> 00:09:39,339
would call it the science fiction novel

165
00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:42,430
but he he didn't want the word fiction

166
00:09:47,430 --> 00:09:44,050
in there so he called it technically

167
00:09:52,560 --> 00:09:47,440
Taylor he wrote that in the late 40s and

168
00:09:56,610 --> 00:09:52,570
as they almost as an appendix of it he

169
00:10:00,540 --> 00:09:56,620
provided the the technical study itself

170
00:10:05,700 --> 00:10:00,550
which is shown here the mass project was

171
00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:05,710
published in 1952 first in German and

172
00:10:12,870 --> 00:10:08,890
then in 1953 in English by the

173
00:10:16,079 --> 00:10:12,880
University of Illinois and they really

174
00:10:20,579 --> 00:10:16,089
republished it later in a paper bag in

175
00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:20,589
the preface in the in the forward from

176
00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:24,370
drown himself wrote the author did the

177
00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:27,250
work in his spare time and his soul

178
00:10:35,370 --> 00:10:31,330
computational tool was a slight old but

179
00:10:37,590 --> 00:10:35,380
he laid out the entire mouth expedition

180
00:10:40,980 --> 00:10:37,600
he came up with the

181
00:10:43,350 --> 00:10:40,990
in four chunks or phases of a Mars

182
00:10:46,340 --> 00:10:43,360
expedition which we still use today

183
00:10:48,930 --> 00:10:46,350
namely launch into Earth's orbit

184
00:10:52,949 --> 00:10:48,940
assembling the mass ship in Earth's

185
00:10:56,370 --> 00:10:52,959
orbit doing the trans mass injection

186
00:10:58,470 --> 00:10:56,380
flying to Mars will be number two going

187
00:11:00,360 --> 00:10:58,480
into Mouse orbit and landing his number

188
00:11:02,340 --> 00:11:00,370
three and then returning from bars

189
00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:02,350
flying back to earth is number four so

190
00:11:07,230 --> 00:11:04,930
you can actually segment Mars expedition

191
00:11:13,530 --> 00:11:07,240
in four parts and he already showed that

192
00:11:15,809 --> 00:11:13,540
but his plan was just gigantic it

193
00:11:18,210 --> 00:11:15,819
devolved anything people had ever seen

194
00:11:21,389 --> 00:11:18,220
before despite the Manhattan Project

195
00:11:26,370 --> 00:11:21,399
which was the nuclear bomb or as a b-52

196
00:11:29,850 --> 00:11:26,380
bomber that mass project was so gigantic

197
00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:29,860
he sent ten ships to Mars or in his

198
00:11:39,329 --> 00:11:35,730
vision each one about which 3720 tons

199
00:11:43,259 --> 00:11:39,339
three Landers of 200 tons each they are

200
00:11:46,410 --> 00:11:43,269
the ones with the with the wings and 70

201
00:11:49,110 --> 00:11:46,420
crew members on board to launch this

202
00:11:53,610 --> 00:11:49,120
into orbit and assembler in Earth's

203
00:11:57,030 --> 00:11:53,620
orbit he needed 46 reusable heavy lift

204
00:12:00,780 --> 00:11:57,040
launchers each 120 times are usable so

205
00:12:03,780 --> 00:12:00,790
he came to a total assembly flight

206
00:12:07,699 --> 00:12:03,790
number of 950 in order to assemble that

207
00:12:11,460 --> 00:12:07,709
fleet and each of those heavy lifters

208
00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:11,470
had a lift of mayors of 6,400 tons about

209
00:12:19,139 --> 00:12:15,250
three times that of the Saturn five so

210
00:12:22,379 --> 00:12:19,149
it was a gigantic and the mission would

211
00:12:24,660 --> 00:12:22,389
have taken two years in 239 days he

212
00:12:26,939 --> 00:12:24,670
later he did it when he realized that

213
00:12:29,999 --> 00:12:26,949
that may have we may be just too much

214
00:12:33,300 --> 00:12:30,009
for a country a country that just came

215
00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:33,310
out of the Korean War and so he scrapped

216
00:12:42,389 --> 00:12:36,810
it he really pared it down to two

217
00:12:46,889 --> 00:12:42,399
spaceships down there in 1956 which had

218
00:12:49,850 --> 00:12:46,899
a much less Emil in a initial mass in

219
00:12:51,390 --> 00:12:49,860
Earth orbit that's really the key

220
00:12:53,700 --> 00:12:51,400
parameter when you

221
00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:53,710
built a mass expedition how much maze do

222
00:13:00,360 --> 00:12:56,050
you need for the spaceship in Earth

223
00:13:03,470 --> 00:13:00,370
orbit and those were about 1700 tons

224
00:13:08,100 --> 00:13:03,480
about half of what the first ones were

225
00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:08,110
he had only 12 crew members and two

226
00:13:14,100 --> 00:13:11,530
ships for safety and one of them was a

227
00:13:17,340 --> 00:13:14,110
passenger ship without the wings and the

228
00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:17,350
cargo ship had the wings with the land

229
00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:19,330
as it could have landed on mask there

230
00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:21,010
were eight people on the peasants ership

231
00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:34,140
the other person in the that group of

232
00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:36,850
old-timers the form pinner moon divorced

233
00:13:42,390 --> 00:13:39,250
dr. Ann sterling her he is shown on the

234
00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:42,400
list who championed electric propulsion

235
00:13:49,260 --> 00:13:45,090
he came up with a very first mass

236
00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:49,270
project based on electric propulsion an

237
00:14:00,540 --> 00:13:53,410
earlier study is shown on top for 1957

238
00:14:04,260 --> 00:14:00,550
and later 1962 using both of nuclear

239
00:14:07,380 --> 00:14:04,270
power for providing the current for the

240
00:14:10,110 --> 00:14:07,390
electric propulsion units the picture on

241
00:14:15,690 --> 00:14:10,120
the in the right corner source Wernher

242
00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:15,700
von Braun and dr. sterling is filmed by

243
00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:21,370
Walt Disney in in one of the films made

244
00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:24,370
by Walt Disney to support for Browns

245
00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:27,970
ideas and here you see stooling her

246
00:14:36,660 --> 00:14:30,850
explaining the electric electric

247
00:14:45,870 --> 00:14:36,670
spaceship to Verna those years in the

248
00:14:47,910 --> 00:14:45,880
50s featured a lot of outreach to the

249
00:14:49,770 --> 00:14:47,920
public from Rowan knew from the

250
00:14:52,170 --> 00:14:49,780
beginning that in order to get any

251
00:14:54,150 --> 00:14:52,180
support for his plans he needed to talk

252
00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:54,160
to the people and he was a great

253
00:14:59,940 --> 00:14:57,610
salesman and the people like Walt Disney

254
00:15:02,940 --> 00:14:59,950
up in the left corner realized that

255
00:15:03,380 --> 00:15:02,950
immediately and pulled him aboard for a

256
00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:03,390
nom

257
00:15:10,370 --> 00:15:08,130
of movies which the Disney made some of

258
00:15:12,500 --> 00:15:10,380
them or all of them were shown and to

259
00:15:16,700 --> 00:15:12,510
the public millions of people have seen

260
00:15:18,500 --> 00:15:16,710
it and were shaken awake by that all of

261
00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:18,510
a sudden they realized hey we can fly

262
00:15:24,050 --> 00:15:20,970
into space if this guy with a strange

263
00:15:26,150 --> 00:15:24,060
accent says so it must be must be true

264
00:15:30,020 --> 00:15:26,160
you know when you have a German accent

265
00:15:33,190 --> 00:15:30,030
people believe you you know they just

266
00:15:36,860 --> 00:15:33,200
look at it let's look at Henry Kissinger

267
00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:36,870
but anyway collier's magazine came out

268
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:41,970
with the famous editions in 1953 52 and

269
00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:45,450
1953 we're all of those ideas which we

270
00:15:50,990 --> 00:15:48,450
still used today were introduced like a

271
00:15:53,780 --> 00:15:51,000
space space suits down interval in the

272
00:15:58,280 --> 00:15:53,790
bottom or the space station on the left

273
00:16:01,010 --> 00:15:58,290
side kind of a wheel shaped 75 meters in

274
00:16:06,950 --> 00:16:01,020
diameter and various spaceship

275
00:16:09,110 --> 00:16:06,960
configurations well I couldn't help we

276
00:16:12,230 --> 00:16:09,120
have it now getting into the 1960s the

277
00:16:15,950 --> 00:16:12,240
1950s being over and I couldn't help

278
00:16:18,260 --> 00:16:15,960
sneaking that in that shows the moment

279
00:16:21,970 --> 00:16:18,270
when I just had arrived in Huntsville

280
00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:21,980
and the guy they are on the upper left

281
00:16:29,420 --> 00:16:26,970
is me in August 1962 Huntsville really

282
00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:29,430
was a very very nice place at that time

283
00:16:36,530 --> 00:16:33,330
we could record it hunts patch and all

284
00:16:38,420 --> 00:16:36,540
the the green areas behind my picture

285
00:16:41,030 --> 00:16:38,430
there of Real Steel cotton fields

286
00:16:43,610 --> 00:16:41,040
virtually cotton fields today it's all

287
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:43,620
built a new nodes or build up and of

288
00:16:47,090 --> 00:16:45,090
course all signs way to come to a

289
00:16:49,610 --> 00:16:47,100
hands-free a rocket city and missile and

290
00:16:52,190 --> 00:16:49,620
space capital aren't there anymore I'm

291
00:16:55,730 --> 00:16:52,200
glad I hit those pictures and that the

292
00:17:01,550 --> 00:16:55,740
car of us really my most favorite kind

293
00:17:05,630 --> 00:17:01,560
my whole life Chevy Chevy Impala eight

294
00:17:08,470 --> 00:17:05,640
cylinder beautiful and I drove it for 43

295
00:17:13,310 --> 00:17:08,480
years just about three or four years ago

296
00:17:15,470 --> 00:17:13,320
some old Cobb a champion tour bus saw it

297
00:17:16,350 --> 00:17:15,480
and bought it from me and they are now

298
00:17:19,079 --> 00:17:16,360
working on Kate

299
00:17:22,289 --> 00:17:19,089
he getting a package into into the

300
00:17:25,140 --> 00:17:22,299
original shape but I drop it 43 years as

301
00:17:29,580 --> 00:17:25,150
she had a female character I called her

302
00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:29,590
Emma and well she always almost always

303
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:35,530
did what I told her but I there was so

304
00:17:40,590 --> 00:17:37,650
much memory is connected my father was

305
00:17:42,510 --> 00:17:40,600
sitting in there one day run Brown was

306
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:42,520
sitting here or in there often so I

307
00:17:47,130 --> 00:17:44,650
never put part with it and so out of

308
00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:47,140
nostalgia I kept it all those 40 / 40

309
00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:49,690
years and as I said I just hold it up in

310
00:17:54,180 --> 00:17:51,690
Alexandria three or four years ago

311
00:17:56,549 --> 00:17:54,190
Huntsville was really down there I mean

312
00:17:59,700 --> 00:17:56,559
this is the way it looked and we all

313
00:18:02,970 --> 00:17:59,710
liked it very much and of every time I'm

314
00:18:07,830 --> 00:18:02,980
down there I'm reminded of that the

315
00:18:13,970 --> 00:18:07,840
1960s of course it was a time when the

316
00:18:18,120 --> 00:18:13,980
Cold War exerted itself in space when

317
00:18:26,460 --> 00:18:18,130
the Soviets challenged us with Sputnik

318
00:18:30,659 --> 00:18:26,470
in 1957 in 1957 and so in 1957 and then

319
00:18:35,370 --> 00:18:30,669
yoga garvin in 1961 and it really shook

320
00:18:37,740 --> 00:18:35,380
people to the bone it was a shock he had

321
00:18:40,169 --> 00:18:37,750
started with President Eisenhower

322
00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:40,179
watching the Disney movies in the White

323
00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:43,530
House he actually asked for them and

324
00:18:52,980 --> 00:18:48,570
then came Sputnik 1 in 1957 October and

325
00:18:55,710 --> 00:18:52,990
in 1958 NASA was established as kind of

326
00:18:59,370 --> 00:18:55,720
a reaction and the Disney movies

327
00:19:01,500 --> 00:18:59,380
certainly hit for that but say geek

328
00:19:05,450 --> 00:19:01,510
overly F for marussia with his boot

329
00:19:09,930 --> 00:19:05,460
Knicks actually provided the major

330
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:09,940
impetus for for the year for NASA to

331
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:14,650
come about 1958 October and in 1960s a

332
00:19:20,039 --> 00:19:15,850
Marshall Space Flight Center in

333
00:19:22,230 --> 00:19:20,049
Huntsville was established to actually

334
00:19:24,570 --> 00:19:22,240
do something about rocket propulsion and

335
00:19:26,820 --> 00:19:24,580
the only people who were familiar with

336
00:19:30,090 --> 00:19:26,830
rocket propulsion was von Braun and his

337
00:19:33,110 --> 00:19:30,100
team so I being a student

338
00:19:36,870 --> 00:19:33,120
back then for me it was no natural to

339
00:19:38,610 --> 00:19:36,880
try to join that group and as you've

340
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:38,620
seen at the picture before in August

341
00:19:46,350 --> 00:19:42,610
1962 from Braun had brought me over and

342
00:19:49,020 --> 00:19:46,360
I started work there never regretted it

343
00:19:53,700 --> 00:19:49,030
we built the Sedins up in the left

344
00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:53,710
corner and the Russians built the n one

345
00:20:00,150 --> 00:19:56,770
on the right upper corner about the same

346
00:20:02,730 --> 00:20:00,160
size of the Sedin but they were not very

347
00:20:05,130 --> 00:20:02,740
fortunate it flew four times and

348
00:20:08,070 --> 00:20:05,140
exploded for time so that was the end of

349
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:08,080
the moon race as high as the Russians

350
00:20:15,810 --> 00:20:12,610
were concerned they went on and built

351
00:20:19,909 --> 00:20:15,820
the energy are up in the lower right

352
00:20:22,950 --> 00:20:19,919
corner a huge power pack of a rocket

353
00:20:25,020 --> 00:20:22,960
which also launched the Soviet shuttle

354
00:20:28,770 --> 00:20:25,030
called boo on there in the lower left

355
00:20:30,510 --> 00:20:28,780
corner in the lower lift picture and we

356
00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:30,520
had our own shadow there on the left and

357
00:20:35,130 --> 00:20:32,530
then there was a space station Mir in

358
00:20:40,049 --> 00:20:35,140
our own first space station Skylab so

359
00:20:42,299 --> 00:20:40,059
that was essentially what we started

360
00:20:49,430 --> 00:20:42,309
building in the 60s and it went on into

361
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:49,440
70s as high as mass is concerned the 60s

362
00:20:56,370 --> 00:20:53,530
meant for us at Huntsville said on five

363
00:20:58,860 --> 00:20:56,380
and so all the mouse studies we did at

364
00:21:03,390 --> 00:20:58,870
that time were based on the 75 with its

365
00:21:09,169 --> 00:21:03,400
10-meter diameter and after the Apollo

366
00:21:12,270 --> 00:21:09,179
lunar landing in July 1969 this was the

367
00:21:14,430 --> 00:21:12,280
pay rate in Huntsville it with von Braun

368
00:21:18,330 --> 00:21:14,440
being carried around and those were the

369
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:18,340
typical signs being held up they knew

370
00:21:22,890 --> 00:21:20,890
that he was a champion of mass and so

371
00:21:26,010 --> 00:21:22,900
there were people in the crowd sucked it

372
00:21:28,980 --> 00:21:26,020
to mass von Braun so that was a clear

373
00:21:33,090 --> 00:21:28,990
message from the man on the street so to

374
00:21:34,950 --> 00:21:33,100
speak and we heated it I think not a

375
00:21:37,020 --> 00:21:34,960
thought yeah that's the next step then

376
00:21:38,820 --> 00:21:37,030
we thought that the Apollo program would

377
00:21:41,430 --> 00:21:38,830
go on that we would establish some kind

378
00:21:43,389 --> 00:21:41,440
of a presence on the moon we hate the

379
00:21:45,249 --> 00:21:43,399
apollo extension systems after

380
00:21:49,919 --> 00:21:45,259
polo we had the Apollo application

381
00:21:54,310 --> 00:21:49,929
program and landed there are six times

382
00:21:56,579 --> 00:21:54,320
up till the early 1970s so we felt

383
00:22:00,159 --> 00:21:56,589
pretty sure that we would go on to mouth

384
00:22:03,419 --> 00:22:00,169
and so we looked at the Sedin and came

385
00:22:06,989 --> 00:22:03,429
up with all kinds of follow-on

386
00:22:10,269 --> 00:22:06,999
configurations on the very left is the

387
00:22:14,979 --> 00:22:10,279
basic Saturn and then by adding all

388
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:14,989
kinds of extensions elongations of the

389
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:19,129
status or striping on boosters we got

390
00:22:25,060 --> 00:22:22,369
higher payloads there were all kinds of

391
00:22:28,539 --> 00:22:25,070
you know just like our heavy lift people

392
00:22:31,149 --> 00:22:28,549
have been looking at in the last few

393
00:22:34,389 --> 00:22:31,159
years we did that all right in the 60s

394
00:22:36,339 --> 00:22:34,399
and not enough we set on fives we always

395
00:22:39,070 --> 00:22:36,349
we always thought that there must be a

396
00:22:42,009 --> 00:22:39,080
follow-on called a posted on so we head

397
00:22:46,269 --> 00:22:42,019
up in the right corner rockets which

398
00:22:48,999 --> 00:22:46,279
went beyond 7-5 7-5 again they're being

399
00:22:51,849 --> 00:22:49,009
on the in the left on the left side and

400
00:22:54,239 --> 00:22:51,859
from there you could kind of put

401
00:22:58,869 --> 00:22:54,249
together all kinds of configurations and

402
00:23:03,389 --> 00:22:58,879
then the famous Nova Rockets on the

403
00:23:06,399 --> 00:23:03,399
bottom all of those were were designed

404
00:23:10,450 --> 00:23:06,409
conceptualized at least with mouse in

405
00:23:13,690 --> 00:23:10,460
mind in pie industry studies on the on

406
00:23:16,959 --> 00:23:13,700
the far left is the basic seven and next

407
00:23:20,339 --> 00:23:16,969
to it the original nova which had

408
00:23:23,859 --> 00:23:20,349
preceded the set and five in our studies

409
00:23:26,859 --> 00:23:23,869
originally we wanted to fly to the moon

410
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:26,869
directly not like a polo but launch on

411
00:23:31,959 --> 00:23:29,330
earth and land on the moon without any

412
00:23:34,719 --> 00:23:31,969
big maneuvers in between that would have

413
00:23:38,799 --> 00:23:34,729
taken the Nova with eight f-1 engines

414
00:23:41,469 --> 00:23:38,809
and then NASA went through a trait of

415
00:23:43,329 --> 00:23:41,479
studies and came up with Earth's orbit

416
00:23:46,899 --> 00:23:43,339
rendezvous and with lunar orbit

417
00:23:51,310 --> 00:23:46,909
rendezvous modes and rejected the direct

418
00:23:53,919 --> 00:23:51,320
Lite mode for cost reasons and also the

419
00:23:56,410 --> 00:23:53,929
size of the vehicle so finally the

420
00:24:03,710 --> 00:23:56,420
outcome was lunar orbit rendezvous

421
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:03,720
and that then kind of finalized the

422
00:24:11,710 --> 00:24:06,450
design of the set and five with five f-1

423
00:24:15,020 --> 00:24:11,720
engines but those monsters were you know

424
00:24:17,870 --> 00:24:15,030
spawned by mental engineering a

425
00:24:20,380 --> 00:24:17,880
tremendous creativity we got out of out

426
00:24:23,090 --> 00:24:20,390
of our teams out of industry at the time

427
00:24:25,130 --> 00:24:23,100
I always liked this one that's the

428
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:25,140
biggest awesome order it's a single

429
00:24:31,370 --> 00:24:28,410
stage to orbit called Nexus proposed by

430
00:24:33,980 --> 00:24:31,380
craft Erica who was at general dynamics

431
00:24:37,340 --> 00:24:33,990
at that time and he was a man behind the

432
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:37,350
center stage which is still flying so

433
00:24:45,890 --> 00:24:42,170
this came from in 1964 and it would have

434
00:24:47,870 --> 00:24:45,900
launched 1,000 tons into orbit so you

435
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:47,880
would need only this one for to fly to

436
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:51,690
Mars from orbit the e me or the initial

437
00:24:58,520 --> 00:24:54,450
Mason Earth orbit for mass wants to be

438
00:25:00,910 --> 00:24:58,530
not less than 700 tons depending on

439
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:00,920
propulsion like chemical or nuclear

440
00:25:07,220 --> 00:25:03,330
electric propulsion and also on the time

441
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:07,230
of you know the years when you fly but

442
00:25:12,590 --> 00:25:10,050
basically what we need is like 700 tons

443
00:25:14,450 --> 00:25:12,600
in orbit and that decides what kind of

444
00:25:17,630 --> 00:25:14,460
heavy lift do we need to we have to

445
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:17,640
build today so that one could launch a

446
00:25:21,860 --> 00:25:20,010
thousand tones and it weighed twenty

447
00:25:27,380 --> 00:25:21,870
four thousand tons at liftoff which is

448
00:25:32,360 --> 00:25:27,390
about the mass of a ocean freighter now

449
00:25:36,860 --> 00:25:32,370
it never was built of course as high as

450
00:25:40,910 --> 00:25:36,870
Mouse is concerned the studies were

451
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:40,920
bundled in a package called Empire early

452
00:25:48,710 --> 00:25:43,970
manned planetary in the planetary

453
00:25:51,410 --> 00:25:48,720
round-trip expedition and was passed out

454
00:25:53,450 --> 00:25:51,420
to a bunch of industries large

455
00:25:56,990 --> 00:25:53,460
industries like Ford's and a dynamics

456
00:26:00,350 --> 00:25:57,000
Lockheed trw Boeing and they all came in

457
00:26:03,410 --> 00:26:00,360
with various proposals how to go to Mars

458
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:03,420
the Empire studies were tremendously

459
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:07,290
creative they developed aid a treasure

460
00:26:14,690 --> 00:26:09,810
trove of knowledge

461
00:26:18,050 --> 00:26:14,700
of engineering inside of rationalities

462
00:26:21,470 --> 00:26:18,060
which still is valid today if people

463
00:26:23,690 --> 00:26:21,480
would just go to the library's or

464
00:26:25,970 --> 00:26:23,700
looking into archives they would find a

465
00:26:28,100 --> 00:26:25,980
lot of answers there without having to

466
00:26:30,350 --> 00:26:28,110
reinvent the wheels because we really

467
00:26:34,490 --> 00:26:30,360
try to cover the waterfront with those

468
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:34,500
Empire studies in the 60s we looked at

469
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:38,490
mass flybys maint flybys and when I same

470
00:26:45,380 --> 00:26:41,930
and I certainly don't mean it in a in a

471
00:26:47,900 --> 00:26:45,390
political incorrect way but that's the

472
00:26:49,580 --> 00:26:47,910
way it was called in fact the question

473
00:26:51,410 --> 00:26:49,590
whether there should men or women on

474
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:51,420
board never came up in date in those

475
00:26:58,100 --> 00:26:55,050
years when von Braun talked about 70

476
00:27:00,200 --> 00:26:58,110
people to Mars or 60 people to Mars he

477
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:00,210
didn't specify you know that these are

478
00:27:06,130 --> 00:27:03,570
just males it was that the subject was

479
00:27:13,190 --> 00:27:06,140
not discussed it was just you know

480
00:27:19,310 --> 00:27:13,200
totally beyond engineering levels anyway

481
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:19,320
so am and flybys meant stop overs and

482
00:27:26,690 --> 00:27:22,410
meant landings and not just a mouse but

483
00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:26,700
Venus and you could actually have double

484
00:27:32,450 --> 00:27:29,370
flybys fly by Venus and then also fly by

485
00:27:38,510 --> 00:27:32,460
mouse at the same time get two bucks you

486
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:38,520
know for one shot and use windows as a

487
00:27:44,030 --> 00:27:41,730
propulsive assistant is that will

488
00:27:46,130 --> 00:27:44,040
accelerate you as in a flyby or

489
00:27:53,030 --> 00:27:46,140
decelerating on the way coming back to

490
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:53,040
earth back in the Soviet Union people

491
00:28:01,810 --> 00:27:56,490
didn't sleep either this guy's a geek of

492
00:28:05,150 --> 00:28:01,820
early f the the fun Brown of Russia

493
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:05,160
taught in the late 50s already in the

494
00:28:10,730 --> 00:28:07,650
early 60s the same things the same

495
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:10,740
thoughts he later of course was a guy

496
00:28:17,810 --> 00:28:13,850
behind Sputnik behind cacao bean and

497
00:28:19,940 --> 00:28:17,820
behind Soyuz and it's still flying today

498
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:19,950
I mean he was a real genius a

499
00:28:24,510 --> 00:28:22,050
hard-headed

500
00:28:26,700 --> 00:28:24,520
stubborn like that he had always to

501
00:28:30,570 --> 00:28:26,710
fight against the politicians in Moscow

502
00:28:32,750 --> 00:28:30,580
yeah but he got his way and he also had

503
00:28:35,549 --> 00:28:32,760
competitors all kinds of little

504
00:28:37,500 --> 00:28:35,559
princedoms where other designers had

505
00:28:40,710 --> 00:28:37,510
certain schools their own developments

506
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:40,720
their own sponsors in Moscow so it was

507
00:28:45,810 --> 00:28:43,210
not just like a unified NASA there it

508
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:45,820
was five or six different groups

509
00:28:50,340 --> 00:28:47,290
fighting against each other for the

510
00:28:54,900 --> 00:28:50,350
dollar of other ubers and so he had a

511
00:28:57,870 --> 00:28:54,910
real complicated life he died early

512
00:29:02,280 --> 00:28:57,880
tracfone Brown in the late in the late

513
00:29:04,530 --> 00:29:02,290
60s years we know of course his daughter

514
00:29:10,070 --> 00:29:04,540
Natalia she's been to NASA we have

515
00:29:15,270 --> 00:29:10,080
invited to several times and she is now

516
00:29:17,669 --> 00:29:15,280
number one as far as prominence in space

517
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:17,679
in Moscow because she's his daughter and

518
00:29:24,870 --> 00:29:21,090
so every time they are sorting out

519
00:29:28,470 --> 00:29:24,880
celebrities she's in front of it Natalya

520
00:29:31,940 --> 00:29:28,480
she's about 74 now and a physician a

521
00:29:36,270 --> 00:29:31,950
doctor of surgery a very very nice lady

522
00:29:39,390 --> 00:29:36,280
who's been fighting for years to find

523
00:29:41,370 --> 00:29:39,400
out who her daddy really was and what

524
00:29:43,370 --> 00:29:41,380
people are thinking about it when we

525
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:43,380
celebrate at the Explorer one

526
00:29:48,060 --> 00:29:45,490
anniversary enhance reader a few years

527
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:48,070
ago we invited Natalia because without

528
00:29:53,310 --> 00:29:51,730
her daddy our explorer never would have

529
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:53,320
flown there wouldn't have been a Sputnik

530
00:29:57,900 --> 00:29:56,170
and we wouldn't have felt challenged so

531
00:30:00,060 --> 00:29:57,910
he invited her and she really liked that

532
00:30:02,669 --> 00:30:00,070
and she came back and said now I know

533
00:30:05,820 --> 00:30:02,679
you know what you people think about my

534
00:30:09,450 --> 00:30:05,830
father and it makes me happy so that was

535
00:30:14,100 --> 00:30:09,460
khalaf and he thought about Mars I have

536
00:30:16,650 --> 00:30:14,110
this book here maslansky project by

537
00:30:19,500 --> 00:30:16,660
Coley if the mass project by Kovalev

538
00:30:27,270 --> 00:30:19,510
which describes in detail what they

539
00:30:32,100 --> 00:30:27,280
wanted to do in in 1964 he came up with

540
00:30:34,690 --> 00:30:32,110
the first ideas of the n1 rocket here is

541
00:30:38,290 --> 00:30:34,700
a 1 which they used to

542
00:30:41,890 --> 00:30:38,300
try to beat us to the moon with their

543
00:30:45,730 --> 00:30:41,900
version of the 75 but the plans for the

544
00:30:48,730 --> 00:30:45,740
n1 are much older than the space race he

545
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:48,740
originally sketched the n1 in support

546
00:30:55,930 --> 00:30:52,730
for Mars he gave it a payload an orbital

547
00:30:58,810 --> 00:30:55,940
payload of 75 to 85 tons which would

548
00:31:00,310 --> 00:30:58,820
have fit into their mass scenario he

549
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:00,320
didn't want to have a landing there he

550
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:03,410
wanted to have a flyby first and so

551
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:06,770
later on that backfired because when the

552
00:31:13,900 --> 00:31:10,130
n1 then was built it had only 75 or 85

553
00:31:17,020 --> 00:31:13,910
tons orbital payload compared 220 tons

554
00:31:19,330 --> 00:31:17,030
by the 75 and so that may have

555
00:31:23,950 --> 00:31:19,340
contributed to them losing the space

556
00:31:26,500 --> 00:31:23,960
race to the moon but basically the

557
00:31:30,580 --> 00:31:26,510
design of the n1 goes back to those

558
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:30,590
years the first mass project in Russia

559
00:31:42,250 --> 00:31:35,650
was called aletta after a famous

560
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:42,260
socialist film from 1924 where I Lita is

561
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:45,050
a queen of mouse you know something like

562
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:48,730
edgar rice burroughs did for us here so

563
00:31:57,510 --> 00:31:54,530
that was the 60s now we are coming 20

564
00:32:02,080 --> 00:31:57,520
yard this is a picture of Korra Leafs

565
00:32:05,620 --> 00:32:02,090
mouth ship the assembly on the far left

566
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:05,630
required assembly shank the spherical

567
00:32:12,910 --> 00:32:09,410
ones the ball like housing there in the

568
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:12,920
middle this is where the the assembly

569
00:32:20,230 --> 00:32:17,330
people the cosmonauts state there is a

570
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:20,240
Soyuz space ship actually docked to it

571
00:32:27,940 --> 00:32:22,970
and then it had six to eight docking

572
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:27,950
ports where these stages could dock and

573
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:30,650
then be linked together to assemble the

574
00:32:35,020 --> 00:32:33,530
mashup there was a pretty smart idea who

575
00:32:38,170 --> 00:32:35,030
knows you know maybe something like that

576
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:38,180
is what we want to do one day on the one

577
00:32:43,900 --> 00:32:40,970
side away from us is the extra mile ship

578
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:43,910
and on the near side here is where the

579
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:45,410
propulsion modules

580
00:32:51,730 --> 00:32:48,290
striped together which he needed and

581
00:32:57,190 --> 00:32:51,740
then the ship itself is shown here in a

582
00:33:03,370 --> 00:32:57,200
in a section with those of floor plans

583
00:33:08,740 --> 00:33:03,380
and so on with a energy solar energy

584
00:33:13,990 --> 00:33:08,750
collecting scholarships shield and then

585
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:14,000
the propulsion unit at the bottom this

586
00:33:20,170 --> 00:33:18,290
is their plan at that time in 64 it

587
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:20,180
would have up in the left corner it

588
00:33:25,510 --> 00:33:22,130
would have required a whole number of n1

589
00:33:26,740 --> 00:33:25,520
rockets to launch the components into

590
00:33:30,130 --> 00:33:26,750
Earth orbit where there would be

591
00:33:32,670 --> 00:33:30,140
assembled as I just showed then the

592
00:33:35,890 --> 00:33:32,680
departure to Mars would take place

593
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:35,900
propulsion modules being dropped as they

594
00:33:42,310 --> 00:33:38,210
emptied so you don't want to carry debt

595
00:33:44,950 --> 00:33:42,320
mess along and then finally turning

596
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:44,960
around and separating the landing module

597
00:33:52,270 --> 00:33:48,530
in red landing on Mars then the ascent

598
00:33:56,890 --> 00:33:52,280
stage going up again rendezvousing with

599
00:33:59,920 --> 00:33:56,900
the orbiting mouth ship in orbit and

600
00:34:04,690 --> 00:33:59,930
then returning back to earth that is

601
00:34:07,830 --> 00:34:04,700
taken from a cove earlier spoke they

602
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:07,840
figured out all kinds of requirements

603
00:34:14,980 --> 00:34:11,450
here is a table where he looked at

604
00:34:19,150 --> 00:34:14,990
various flight modes to Mars orbiters

605
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:19,160
and Landers and return flights and came

606
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:22,610
up in the middle with the tonnage email

607
00:34:30,190 --> 00:34:26,570
required in Earth orbit to carry 20 tons

608
00:34:32,770 --> 00:34:30,200
to deliver 20 22 miles 20 tons is quite

609
00:34:35,890 --> 00:34:32,780
a lot if you talk about habitat and

610
00:34:38,980 --> 00:34:35,900
provisions and so on so it would take at

611
00:34:42,250 --> 00:34:38,990
the lower the lower two examples they

612
00:34:46,210 --> 00:34:42,260
are like between 600 700 tons in Earth's

613
00:34:48,790 --> 00:34:46,220
orbit minimum to do that and that number

614
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:48,800
hasn't changed for the last 60 years so

615
00:34:55,900 --> 00:34:52,970
it is a kind of a best or the minimum

616
00:34:58,150 --> 00:34:55,910
meo you need if you want to have a mouse

617
00:35:01,299 --> 00:34:58,160
slide if you go up to a thousand

618
00:35:03,010 --> 00:35:01,309
so much the better the the more mess you

619
00:35:05,260 --> 00:35:03,020
have for the initial medicine Earth

620
00:35:08,170 --> 00:35:05,270
orbit the morgue you can take along and

621
00:35:10,569 --> 00:35:08,180
the longer you can stay on Mars he would

622
00:35:13,660 --> 00:35:10,579
have just stayed very shortly and come

623
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:13,670
back at least to do something for the

624
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:18,650
first time well now we are coming to the

625
00:35:26,650 --> 00:35:24,770
third decade the 70s remember we had the

626
00:35:30,130 --> 00:35:26,660
60s with those tremendous Apollo

627
00:35:35,799 --> 00:35:30,140
successors Apollo 8 Apollo 10 Apollo 11

628
00:35:39,370 --> 00:35:35,809
Apollo 12 in 69 now we have in 1970 and

629
00:35:43,089 --> 00:35:39,380
in the politicians in Washington started

630
00:35:45,549 --> 00:35:43,099
asking what's next buddy but the

631
00:35:47,980 --> 00:35:45,559
administration had changed it wasn't

632
00:35:51,130 --> 00:35:47,990
president johnson lyndon johnson anymore

633
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:51,140
it was President Nixon and the

634
00:35:58,539 --> 00:35:54,170
Republicans and so they asked well what

635
00:36:00,490 --> 00:35:58,549
should we do now we cannot just take in

636
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:00,500
order to continue the way they wanted

637
00:36:10,299 --> 00:36:06,410
the the JFK lunar program and Nixon had

638
00:36:12,250 --> 00:36:10,309
a Advisory Committee PSAC called a

639
00:36:15,069 --> 00:36:12,260
president science advisory committee

640
00:36:18,370 --> 00:36:15,079
with the chair a chairman being lead to

641
00:36:22,029 --> 00:36:18,380
bridge that they had already in 67

642
00:36:24,720 --> 00:36:22,039
prepared a recommendation that the

643
00:36:27,099 --> 00:36:24,730
United States should develop a reusable

644
00:36:29,289 --> 00:36:27,109
shuttle of usable space ships they

645
00:36:32,470 --> 00:36:29,299
called it either fully or partially the

646
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:32,480
usable in order to reduce costs that was

647
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:37,970
recommendation in 67 and the White House

648
00:36:46,420 --> 00:36:42,890
also had a space task OOP STG space task

649
00:36:49,930 --> 00:36:46,430
group headed by vice president Agnew

650
00:36:52,900 --> 00:36:49,940
Spiro Agnew with Lee do bridge of the

651
00:36:55,180 --> 00:36:52,910
PSAC and robert siemens Secretary of the

652
00:36:59,460 --> 00:36:55,190
Air Force and Thomas Paine NASA

653
00:37:03,339 --> 00:36:59,470
Administrator as members so all of those

654
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:03,349
came to us and said what next you have

655
00:37:07,630 --> 00:37:05,690
now landed on the moon and we said yeah

656
00:37:10,269 --> 00:37:07,640
be one over on the moon and said no Nick

657
00:37:11,140 --> 00:37:10,279
start we need something something back

658
00:37:14,450 --> 00:37:11,150
here on earth

659
00:37:20,660 --> 00:37:14,460
the things have changed Vietnam and so

660
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:20,670
on so it was fiscal 69 going into a

661
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:25,170
physical 70 and we were hoping for a new

662
00:37:31,910 --> 00:37:28,890
start mouse but there were no new starts

663
00:37:34,670 --> 00:37:31,920
the only thing we got in those early

664
00:37:37,190 --> 00:37:34,680
years was in 1972 President Nixon

665
00:37:40,130 --> 00:37:37,200
approving the shattered in in its

666
00:37:43,099 --> 00:37:40,140
minimum form we had done a lot of

667
00:37:45,410 --> 00:37:43,109
shuttle studies before fully reusable in

668
00:37:47,839 --> 00:37:45,420
all kinds of variations and had to

669
00:37:50,630 --> 00:37:47,849
reduce it and cut it back with every

670
00:37:53,509 --> 00:37:50,640
iteration every time the Bureau of the

671
00:37:55,130 --> 00:37:53,519
budget said no that's too much or some

672
00:37:58,579 --> 00:37:55,140
other people told us it's too much we

673
00:38:01,759 --> 00:37:58,589
went back you know and and interest you

674
00:38:04,210 --> 00:38:01,769
know like like soldiers cut it even back

675
00:38:07,339 --> 00:38:04,220
down until we got the current shuddered

676
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:07,349
at least something under there wouldn't

677
00:38:17,660 --> 00:38:10,650
have been anything else these people

678
00:38:20,479 --> 00:38:17,670
here the space task group were given our

679
00:38:26,829 --> 00:38:20,489
view of America's next decades in space

680
00:38:30,319 --> 00:38:26,839
it is a NASA's plan prepared mostly by

681
00:38:32,420 --> 00:38:30,329
George Mueller who was ahead of the

682
00:38:35,359 --> 00:38:32,430
manned spaceflight office here it

683
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:35,369
headquarters and by burner from brown at

684
00:38:40,489 --> 00:38:37,890
Marshall and Robert giggles at the

685
00:38:42,859 --> 00:38:40,499
Houston manned spacecraft Center and

686
00:38:45,489 --> 00:38:42,869
then of course Johnson Space Center they

687
00:38:53,029 --> 00:38:45,499
came up with what's called the

688
00:38:56,870 --> 00:38:53,039
integrated program plan IPP that was a

689
00:38:59,450 --> 00:38:56,880
no 1969 which was presented in

690
00:39:02,390 --> 00:38:59,460
Washington and you can see it's got

691
00:39:04,549 --> 00:39:02,400
everything in the kitchen sink it's got

692
00:39:09,529 --> 00:39:04,559
transportation their third row from the

693
00:39:13,579 --> 00:39:09,539
top with a shuttle in there no it's a

694
00:39:16,910 --> 00:39:13,589
bottom the shutter landers nuclear talk

695
00:39:19,660 --> 00:39:16,920
or nuclear stage and Mars Lander there

696
00:39:24,039 --> 00:39:19,670
and then

697
00:39:27,849 --> 00:39:24,049
the other things on top space station on

698
00:39:30,069 --> 00:39:27,859
top and space space and so on and in an

699
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:30,079
evolutionary sense the integrated

700
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:33,290
program plan was kind of parallel

701
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:36,170
developments developing things at the

702
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:40,010
same time so to make much major use out

703
00:39:44,740 --> 00:39:42,170
of commonality so you didn't have to use

704
00:39:46,750 --> 00:39:44,750
or reinvent a lunar station when you

705
00:39:49,930 --> 00:39:46,760
could use a space station module for it

706
00:39:51,819 --> 00:39:49,940
and you didn't have to redesign a mouse

707
00:39:55,089 --> 00:39:51,829
mission module if you could use a space

708
00:39:57,940 --> 00:39:55,099
station module instead for it so there

709
00:39:59,620 --> 00:39:57,950
there was some sense to this because we

710
00:40:02,079 --> 00:39:59,630
fed it we could reduce costs by

711
00:40:05,140 --> 00:40:02,089
commonality which required parallel

712
00:40:08,170 --> 00:40:05,150
developments but the overall cost still

713
00:40:10,329 --> 00:40:08,180
it was of course tremendous and we

714
00:40:15,930 --> 00:40:10,339
didn't put any years on top that came

715
00:40:21,309 --> 00:40:15,940
only a little later on August for a 1969

716
00:40:24,180 --> 00:40:21,319
which it always was a very important

717
00:40:27,910 --> 00:40:24,190
date for us Wernher von Braun presented

718
00:40:36,579 --> 00:40:27,920
the man mouse mission portion of it to

719
00:40:40,030 --> 00:40:36,589
the space task group wanna go big that

720
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:40,040
was a study done at Marshall with Boeing

721
00:40:46,420 --> 00:40:44,450
the Boeing as a contractor which was for

722
00:40:48,849 --> 00:40:46,430
in my up in our opinion at that time

723
00:40:52,180 --> 00:40:48,859
very reasonable it was based on the 75

724
00:40:55,750 --> 00:40:52,190
we didn't know yet that the 75 was you

725
00:40:58,539 --> 00:40:55,760
know going to be dropped it had nuclear

726
00:41:03,579 --> 00:40:58,549
propulsion there the norva engine which

727
00:41:07,690 --> 00:41:03,589
had accumulated quite a amazing number

728
00:41:11,319 --> 00:41:07,700
of successful starts and about 4,000 or

729
00:41:14,890 --> 00:41:11,329
even more seconds of firing time with a

730
00:41:19,720 --> 00:41:14,900
departure of 1981 and return 1986 for

731
00:41:23,069 --> 00:41:19,730
the math slide the cost in $69 would

732
00:41:26,609 --> 00:41:23,079
have been four billion dollars in 1971

733
00:41:30,250 --> 00:41:26,619
increased to seven to eight billion by

734
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:30,260
1975 and returning down to six billion

735
00:41:37,060 --> 00:41:32,810
in 1976

736
00:41:39,940 --> 00:41:37,070
and we we did it in four plants at the

737
00:41:45,100 --> 00:41:39,950
original from brown plane from 81 launch

738
00:41:47,020 --> 00:41:45,110
was called plan a and it kind of thought

739
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:47,030
we thought that this could be an Apollo

740
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:50,330
like decision you like like JFK made the

741
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:53,690
decision in May 1961 go to the moon

742
00:41:58,870 --> 00:41:56,570
that's some president now would have to

743
00:42:01,180 --> 00:41:58,880
make a decision like that now go to Mars

744
00:42:03,670 --> 00:42:01,190
and that would have been plan a but we

745
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:03,680
came up with clan be also at the same

746
00:42:08,650 --> 00:42:05,530
time in that booklet I just thought

747
00:42:11,140 --> 00:42:08,660
where the mass light everything else was

748
00:42:13,690 --> 00:42:11,150
kept in there that was George Miller he

749
00:42:16,420 --> 00:42:13,700
said no plan B Plan C will not be

750
00:42:18,730 --> 00:42:16,430
different it'll just move into time a

751
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:18,740
little bit further that was his way of

752
00:42:24,370 --> 00:42:21,770
trying to save Mars and so plain be

753
00:42:26,650 --> 00:42:24,380
moved the mouse expedition to nineteen

754
00:42:29,470 --> 00:42:26,660
eighty sweet when I did until nineteen

755
00:42:31,390 --> 00:42:29,480
eighty six and play and see mouths

756
00:42:35,350 --> 00:42:31,400
nineteen eighty six to nineteen eighty

757
00:42:39,210 --> 00:42:35,360
nine so all four plants all three planes

758
00:42:42,850 --> 00:42:39,220
in that booklet were integrated and

759
00:42:46,630 --> 00:42:42,860
included mouth but it did not meet with

760
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:46,640
great support and so NASA went back and

761
00:42:54,150 --> 00:42:51,170
added plan D which which meant no mouse

762
00:43:10,589 --> 00:42:54,160
at all but station and shouted together

763
00:43:17,260 --> 00:43:13,690
that's another picture of the mouth ship

764
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:17,270
out of out of Marshall at that time 69

765
00:43:22,809 --> 00:43:19,490
we've seen over engine and the

766
00:43:24,339 --> 00:43:22,819
propulsion modules or they tank the tank

767
00:43:27,970 --> 00:43:24,349
modules which are topped when they're

768
00:43:32,049 --> 00:43:27,980
empty and the front portion of the mouth

769
00:43:34,630 --> 00:43:32,059
ships two of them two ships in 69 a kind

770
00:43:40,269 --> 00:43:34,640
of hema headed because the of the

771
00:43:43,240 --> 00:43:40,279
diameter of the mouse entry capsule we

772
00:43:48,299 --> 00:43:43,250
didn't know yet what the atmosphere on

773
00:43:51,609 --> 00:43:48,309
Mars was like so we were kind of

774
00:43:55,890 --> 00:43:51,619
uncertain there what kind of mouth

775
00:43:58,779 --> 00:43:55,900
cylinder shape we need it was the

776
00:44:01,059 --> 00:43:58,789
forward portion of both airless it was a

777
00:44:03,599 --> 00:44:01,069
vacuum you had to could enter it through

778
00:44:07,870 --> 00:44:03,609
an airlock so we didn't have to

779
00:44:09,430 --> 00:44:07,880
pressurize the entire head head section

780
00:44:11,470 --> 00:44:09,440
I still remember when we talked about

781
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:11,480
that discussed it whether that was safe

782
00:44:20,470 --> 00:44:15,650
to do and those little entry Apollo

783
00:44:23,799 --> 00:44:20,480
shape shapes are scientific probes which

784
00:44:29,650 --> 00:44:23,809
we would have dropped onto Mars from

785
00:44:33,430 --> 00:44:29,660
orbit before actually landing there this

786
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:33,440
was see the mission itself launched down

787
00:44:41,859 --> 00:44:37,970
there on on mass in 1981 dropping the

788
00:44:44,589 --> 00:44:41,869
first propulsion module halfway out

789
00:44:48,339 --> 00:44:44,599
after after the trans mouse injection

790
00:44:51,099 --> 00:44:48,349
and then going to Mars and going into a

791
00:44:53,349 --> 00:44:51,109
high orbit first whereas a PM to

792
00:44:56,410 --> 00:44:53,359
propulsion module two is jettisoned and

793
00:44:59,200 --> 00:44:56,420
then circular icing and going into a

794
00:45:02,049 --> 00:44:59,210
smaller orbit into a smaller radius

795
00:45:06,900 --> 00:45:02,059
orbit and there from their land on Mars

796
00:45:10,450 --> 00:45:06,910
and then return back and fly back home

797
00:45:13,420 --> 00:45:10,460
we had a capsule designed I think that

798
00:45:16,839 --> 00:45:13,430
was with the help and assistance of JSC

799
00:45:18,700 --> 00:45:16,849
at that time looking like an Apollo

800
00:45:21,090 --> 00:45:18,710
capsule only bigger and it had a

801
00:45:27,350 --> 00:45:21,100
laboratory inside living for us

802
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:30,660
inserted you see the ascent capsule the

803
00:45:36,150 --> 00:45:34,690
ascent stage so to fly up into orbit you

804
00:45:39,390 --> 00:45:36,160
didn't have to take the whole thing up

805
00:45:44,340 --> 00:45:39,400
you just launched out of that hole with

806
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:44,350
the people sitting up on top well before

807
00:45:50,790 --> 00:45:47,650
I get to that let's finish this sad

808
00:45:54,150 --> 00:45:50,800
story of the 70s as far as this is

809
00:45:57,900 --> 00:45:54,160
concerned the plan D I mentioned was off

810
00:46:01,170 --> 00:45:57,910
the table Tom Paine who was our NASA

811
00:46:06,740 --> 00:46:01,180
Administrator then went back and asked

812
00:46:09,990 --> 00:46:06,750
for four billion for fiscal fiscal 70

813
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:10,000
5271 this would have kept the set on

814
00:46:16,740 --> 00:46:13,090
five in production and provided startup

815
00:46:19,830 --> 00:46:16,750
money for shuttle in station this was

816
00:46:22,650 --> 00:46:19,840
cut by the Bureau of the budget to three

817
00:46:24,390 --> 00:46:22,660
point seven three billion and then came

818
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:24,400
an across-the-board cut for the whole

819
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:26,890
government of ten percent which left us

820
00:46:32,250 --> 00:46:29,770
with three points we three billion we

821
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:32,260
had to close the electronic research

822
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:35,290
center in cambridge was one of the nasa

823
00:46:40,980 --> 00:46:37,930
centers at that time and the nasa

824
00:46:42,930 --> 00:46:40,990
contractor workforce failed from hundred

825
00:46:47,730 --> 00:46:42,940
ninety thousand two hundred forty

826
00:46:49,890 --> 00:46:47,740
thousand in 1971 then congress and it

827
00:46:52,950 --> 00:46:49,900
was just Bureau of the budget up to now

828
00:46:57,180 --> 00:46:52,960
then Congress added its own cuts which

829
00:46:59,310 --> 00:46:57,190
left NASA was 3.27 billion and that was

830
00:47:03,870 --> 00:46:59,320
about one-third of our budget of the

831
00:47:06,510 --> 00:47:03,880
mid-60s in constant year dollars well

832
00:47:10,260 --> 00:47:06,520
about that time they realized something

833
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:10,270
needs to be done we cannot just fold it

834
00:47:16,170 --> 00:47:14,530
we needed pilot flights because we

835
00:47:19,170 --> 00:47:16,180
wouldn't have had any pilot the flights

836
00:47:22,890 --> 00:47:19,180
afterwards so Nixon approved a reduced

837
00:47:26,610 --> 00:47:22,900
shudder in 1971 which was not fully

838
00:47:31,980 --> 00:47:26,620
reusable it flew from 1980 1 2 next to

839
00:47:36,270 --> 00:47:31,990
lie over 30 years which is quite an

840
00:47:46,030 --> 00:47:42,820
well also in 1970 NASA went back to

841
00:47:50,890 --> 00:47:46,040
studying man Mars using the phone brown

842
00:47:54,700 --> 00:47:50,900
study of 69 reviewing the work and came

843
00:47:57,760 --> 00:47:54,710
up with a new start which that did not

844
00:48:01,690 --> 00:47:57,770
require a certain 575 was not there

845
00:48:04,410 --> 00:48:01,700
anymore so we baselined a shuttle

846
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:04,420
derived launch vehicle as heavy lifter

847
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:09,530
it would have just taken six crew

848
00:48:15,910 --> 00:48:12,770
members for the expedition so we again

849
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:15,920
shrunk it down from 12 to six the space

850
00:48:22,930 --> 00:48:18,890
station was seen as essential for

851
00:48:26,410 --> 00:48:22,940
orbital test and demo flights also there

852
00:48:29,830 --> 00:48:26,420
was a competing proposal by a scientist

853
00:48:35,190 --> 00:48:29,840
Fred singer who came up with a Phobos

854
00:48:38,110 --> 00:48:35,200
Deimos mission 1978 PhD mission called

855
00:48:40,990 --> 00:48:38,120
which used electric propulsion with some

856
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:41,000
chemical assistance launched from

857
00:48:48,010 --> 00:48:45,410
geosynchronous orbit on low thrust a no

858
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:48,020
space station envisioned so in order to

859
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:49,970
get all of those parts up to

860
00:48:54,700 --> 00:48:52,490
geosynchronous orbits you need it I

861
00:48:57,700 --> 00:48:54,710
don't know how many 40 or 50 shuttle

862
00:48:59,680 --> 00:48:57,710
flights and some upper stage some space

863
00:49:01,380 --> 00:48:59,690
talk in order to assemble in

864
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:01,390
geosynchronous he wanted geosynchronous

865
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:04,370
because the take of the velocity the

866
00:49:08,650 --> 00:49:06,650
Delta V would have been much less there

867
00:49:12,340 --> 00:49:08,660
and he could a few smaller engines and

868
00:49:16,030 --> 00:49:12,350
electric propulsion and outside in in

869
00:49:18,190 --> 00:49:16,040
those 70s seventies a very kind of a no

870
00:49:20,380 --> 00:49:18,200
action type we had to sit and twiddle

871
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:20,390
our thumbs because the sutter was being

872
00:49:24,550 --> 00:49:22,850
developed you know behind the scenery

873
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:24,560
where nobody could see it so the public

874
00:49:31,060 --> 00:49:27,370
lost interest in space more and more

875
00:49:36,690 --> 00:49:31,070
Congress who which reviewed our budget

876
00:49:44,050 --> 00:49:38,680
uninterested there wasn't anything going

877
00:49:45,660 --> 00:49:44,060
on after the Skylab flights in 73 and CA

878
00:49:47,549 --> 00:49:45,670
esti PE the Apollo so

879
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:47,559
use test project those were not new

880
00:49:54,359 --> 00:49:50,290
starts there were just kind of it's a

881
00:49:57,030 --> 00:49:54,369
tail end of existing programs there was

882
00:50:00,420 --> 00:49:57,040
nothing else we could show so there was

883
00:50:04,230 --> 00:50:00,430
one year when the shuttle program was

884
00:50:06,450 --> 00:50:04,240
saved in Congress by only one voice you

885
00:50:10,069 --> 00:50:06,460
are pretty fortunate our opponents were

886
00:50:13,620 --> 00:50:10,079
pretty strong mostly Democrats there was

887
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:13,630
Senator Proxmire senator mondale who

888
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:16,410
later of course became a vice president

889
00:50:23,490 --> 00:50:19,450
so those seventies were tough really

890
00:50:25,980 --> 00:50:23,500
tough and unfortunately we hit the

891
00:50:30,780 --> 00:50:25,990
shutter which was being designed and

892
00:50:33,630 --> 00:50:30,790
built out out of you so to speak outside

893
00:50:36,539 --> 00:50:33,640
people became impatient enormous you

894
00:50:40,970 --> 00:50:36,549
know people about Mars and so up sprung

895
00:50:44,190 --> 00:50:40,980
a number a whole numerous number of

896
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:44,200
miles underground activities it was

897
00:50:51,539 --> 00:50:47,290
called the mouse underground external

898
00:50:54,240 --> 00:50:51,549
study activities they had Mouse symposia

899
00:50:57,329 --> 00:50:54,250
the case of mouth symposia which we

900
00:51:00,900 --> 00:50:57,339
monitor autor set in on but for NASA

901
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:00,910
there wasn't really much to do NASA

902
00:51:05,849 --> 00:51:02,890
didn't really have any long-range plans

903
00:51:09,329 --> 00:51:05,859
beyond Apollo as I just said we just

904
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:09,339
continued into Skylit using a upper

905
00:51:15,420 --> 00:51:11,650
stage that's the s4b state from Sedin

906
00:51:19,109 --> 00:51:15,430
and using these the last 71 be for the

907
00:51:23,010 --> 00:51:19,119
apollo-soyuz test project so I was

908
00:51:25,289 --> 00:51:23,020
brought up in 74 from Marshall to do

909
00:51:27,809 --> 00:51:25,299
long-range planning they had no idea

910
00:51:30,870 --> 00:51:27,819
what what it is how to do how to go

911
00:51:33,809 --> 00:51:30,880
about it the future looked like a big

912
00:51:35,099 --> 00:51:33,819
black hole you know everyone sort what

913
00:51:37,260 --> 00:51:35,109
we should have this we should have that

914
00:51:40,500 --> 00:51:37,270
we should have a space station and you

915
00:51:42,630 --> 00:51:40,510
had to put a structure into that future

916
00:51:45,539 --> 00:51:42,640
United structure it and so I came up

917
00:51:49,260 --> 00:51:45,549
with this railroad switching yard I

918
00:51:51,990 --> 00:51:49,270
called it which was not supposed to you

919
00:51:55,500 --> 00:51:52,000
know happen all in parallel but it at

920
00:51:57,690 --> 00:51:55,510
least told us where to put certain

921
00:51:59,410 --> 00:51:57,700
things there was on the bottom the

922
00:52:01,990 --> 00:51:59,420
transportation line coming from

923
00:52:05,589 --> 00:52:02,000
the shutter with large lift reheated

924
00:52:08,260 --> 00:52:05,599
there and the OTV which was the orbiter

925
00:52:10,599 --> 00:52:08,270
transfer vehicle or tag which also had

926
00:52:13,180 --> 00:52:10,609
an advanced version their lunar

927
00:52:14,799 --> 00:52:13,190
logistics lander advanced lunar lander

928
00:52:17,410 --> 00:52:14,809
and it's a bottom nuclear propulsion

929
00:52:21,039 --> 00:52:17,420
stages that in the middle a space

930
00:52:24,430 --> 00:52:21,049
station evolution coming from Skylab and

931
00:52:26,770 --> 00:52:24,440
from space lab on the left side is where

932
00:52:29,859 --> 00:52:26,780
we were that was what I call support to

933
00:52:31,660 --> 00:52:29,869
push things pushing us forward and on

934
00:52:34,690 --> 00:52:31,670
the way on the right side was pulled

935
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:34,700
lots of ideas which people wanted to see

936
00:52:40,180 --> 00:52:37,130
in their future one day and we couldn't

937
00:52:42,490 --> 00:52:40,190
just single out one we couldn't just say

938
00:52:45,339 --> 00:52:42,500
well we all want to do this so I had to

939
00:52:47,829 --> 00:52:45,349
leave it open and put the major ones

940
00:52:50,109 --> 00:52:47,839
here earth of its base community solar

941
00:52:52,750 --> 00:52:50,119
power plants in space lunar colony in

942
00:52:55,990 --> 00:52:52,760
five colony and my settlement and then

943
00:52:58,930 --> 00:52:56,000
show you know the vector relationships

944
00:53:00,849 --> 00:52:58,940
in that tree of relevance to show what

945
00:53:06,240 --> 00:53:00,859
needs to go where and what needs to be

946
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:06,250
developed first that still would apply

947
00:53:11,559 --> 00:53:09,290
you know without any years or on top

948
00:53:14,380 --> 00:53:11,569
because essentially that's what you need

949
00:53:16,030 --> 00:53:14,390
you need precursors in order to do the

950
00:53:20,039 --> 00:53:16,040
very large steps and if you want to go

951
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:20,049
to Mars you do need a space station and

952
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:24,170
the other things too so it gave us a

953
00:53:29,799 --> 00:53:26,930
structure of which we can use in to put

954
00:53:32,319 --> 00:53:29,809
studies go out to industry and do

955
00:53:34,569 --> 00:53:32,329
contracted studies mostly space

956
00:53:37,690 --> 00:53:34,579
industrialization studies in on the

957
00:53:44,500 --> 00:53:37,700
Earth's orbit line there well that was

958
00:53:46,599 --> 00:53:44,510
in the 70s and mass but played a role

959
00:53:49,299 --> 00:53:46,609
mostly external as I said with mouse

960
00:53:51,250 --> 00:53:49,309
under ground and not so much in NASA

961
00:53:54,839 --> 00:53:51,260
except for that one study I mentioned

962
00:53:58,000 --> 00:53:54,849
where we redid the 69 study of fun brown

963
00:54:00,609 --> 00:53:58,010
now we come to the 1980s the first

964
00:54:04,450 --> 00:54:00,619
decade and it was a decade of Ronald

965
00:54:10,030 --> 00:54:04,460
Reagan from who was president for 1981

966
00:54:12,769 --> 00:54:10,040
to 1989 again the crest was what next

967
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:12,779
what should we do now

968
00:54:20,549 --> 00:54:16,210
his vice president was the editor bush

969
00:54:25,079 --> 00:54:20,559
and he set up a n course national

970
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:25,089
commission on space in 1985 headed by

971
00:54:30,599 --> 00:54:27,490
Thomas Paine again formerly NASA

972
00:54:34,529 --> 00:54:30,609
Administrator to take a look at the next

973
00:54:36,390 --> 00:54:34,539
50 years in space to kind of structure

974
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:36,400
the future which had never been done

975
00:54:41,849 --> 00:54:40,210
before your show where things had their

976
00:54:44,670 --> 00:54:41,859
proper place and what needs to be done

977
00:54:46,519 --> 00:54:44,680
first so they came up with out with a

978
00:54:50,759 --> 00:54:46,529
report on the next 50 years in space

979
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:50,769
which was a very very good very

980
00:54:56,970 --> 00:54:53,410
realistic in certain areas but also very

981
00:55:00,950 --> 00:54:56,980
idealistic in other areas kind of

982
00:55:05,250 --> 00:55:00,960
free-thinking type ideas and it came

983
00:55:06,839 --> 00:55:05,260
unfortunately out in May 1986 just three

984
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:06,849
or four months after the Challenger

985
00:55:12,630 --> 00:55:09,970
accident so it came out in a time they

986
00:55:17,279 --> 00:55:12,640
couldn't have been worse for was an

987
00:55:22,039 --> 00:55:17,289
effort like that that was a handicap but

988
00:55:25,970 --> 00:55:22,049
we had a report which was real pretty

989
00:55:29,519 --> 00:55:25,980
you know all inclusive so to speak so

990
00:55:33,870 --> 00:55:29,529
Fletcher who was our administrator at

991
00:55:36,420 --> 00:55:33,880
that time asked the female after now the

992
00:55:40,559 --> 00:55:36,430
first American woman in orbit Sally

993
00:55:43,230 --> 00:55:40,569
right to collect a group of people and

994
00:55:45,870 --> 00:55:43,240
do and single out you know what can be

995
00:55:48,299 --> 00:55:45,880
done with the Tom Paine report so she

996
00:55:52,319 --> 00:55:48,309
came up with a committee I was a member

997
00:55:57,210 --> 00:55:52,329
of that and in 1987 put out the right

998
00:55:59,460 --> 00:55:57,220
report which had boiled down the end

999
00:56:02,759 --> 00:55:59,470
course report to for alternative

1000
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:02,769
long-range long-term initiatives with

1001
00:56:10,349 --> 00:56:08,170
the first human on Mars set for 2005 the

1002
00:56:12,450 --> 00:56:10,359
other alternatives were more down to

1003
00:56:16,380 --> 00:56:12,460
earth it was particularly mission planet

1004
00:56:20,089 --> 00:56:16,390
Earth which was quite important at that

1005
00:56:23,220 --> 00:56:20,099
time and kind of spawned a lot of

1006
00:56:24,210 --> 00:56:23,230
initiatives having to do with the

1007
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:24,220
environment

1008
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:27,490
and an hour our own ecology down on

1009
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:31,530
earth but mouse was still in there and

1010
00:56:40,530 --> 00:56:36,490
at the end when President Reagan

1011
00:56:45,990 --> 00:56:40,540
finished in 89 january and the george HW

1012
00:56:49,500 --> 00:56:46,000
bush took over as president he was

1013
00:56:52,170 --> 00:56:49,510
headed with SDI which President Reagan

1014
00:56:55,710 --> 00:56:52,180
had come up with space space Defense

1015
00:56:58,859 --> 00:56:55,720
Initiative where he wanted to use space

1016
00:57:02,089 --> 00:56:58,869
developments in a big defensive posture

1017
00:57:05,550 --> 00:57:02,099
with better stations in orbit and so on

1018
00:57:10,070 --> 00:57:05,560
and had already turned on industry to

1019
00:57:12,780 --> 00:57:10,080
that a lot so when Bush came he had 22

1020
00:57:15,150 --> 00:57:12,790
concerns first of all what to do in

1021
00:57:18,630 --> 00:57:15,160
space what can we do with Shelly rights

1022
00:57:22,470 --> 00:57:18,640
report and secondly how can I help all

1023
00:57:25,530 --> 00:57:22,480
those victims of SDI after that program

1024
00:57:28,829 --> 00:57:25,540
collapsed you know industry or the the

1025
00:57:32,070 --> 00:57:28,839
workforce SDI people so put a president

1026
00:57:34,710 --> 00:57:32,080
bush on july twenty nineteen eighty nine

1027
00:57:38,460 --> 00:57:34,720
exactly twenty years after Apollo 11

1028
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:38,470
landing not not a coincidence presented

1029
00:57:47,130 --> 00:57:43,450
the sei just changed one letter from d

1030
00:57:51,690 --> 00:57:47,140
to e space exploration initiative which

1031
00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:51,700
put a peaceful evolutionary concept long

1032
00:57:57,420 --> 00:57:54,130
range concept very very good very

1033
00:58:01,440 --> 00:57:57,430
rational instead of this SDI idea and

1034
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:01,450
instead essentially said that a if we do

1035
00:58:07,290 --> 00:58:04,690
ssei we can keep all the people in work

1036
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:07,300
and just you know redirect them a little

1037
00:58:14,579 --> 00:58:11,410
bit where did he get the sei material

1038
00:58:18,810 --> 00:58:14,589
well from a 90 days study which NASA did

1039
00:58:22,470 --> 00:58:18,820
pretty quickly a few months earlier in

1040
00:58:25,980 --> 00:58:22,480
late 88 or early nineteen eighty nine a

1041
00:58:29,550 --> 00:58:25,990
ninety 90 days study to which included

1042
00:58:33,780 --> 00:58:29,560
Moon and Mars and that was then kind of

1043
00:58:37,650 --> 00:58:33,790
folded into the sei but Ross push into

1044
00:58:40,630 --> 00:58:37,660
five different reference programs

1045
00:58:45,220 --> 00:58:40,640
again you know a whole collection of

1046
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:45,230
ideas and let's see what we go vote in

1047
00:58:56,170 --> 00:58:52,010
pictures no yeah I'll go to that so the

1048
00:58:57,850 --> 00:58:56,180
FBI had a whole bunch of ideas so Bush

1049
00:59:02,370 --> 00:58:57,860
turned to his vice president day and

1050
00:59:04,930 --> 00:59:02,380
created it said well you handle it and

1051
00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:04,940
took a little while for Dan Quayle to

1052
00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:06,770
realize what a tremendous has dropped

1053
00:59:14,170 --> 00:59:10,130
this AC I really meant and so he came to

1054
00:59:17,260 --> 00:59:14,180
NASA for help and said we need a public

1055
00:59:19,300 --> 00:59:17,270
outreach know if you don't know if you

1056
00:59:22,180 --> 00:59:19,310
don't know what to do you always say

1057
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:22,190
let's clue in let's go do an outreach

1058
00:59:27,580 --> 00:59:24,490
and ask people outside what they want

1059
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:27,590
and so NASA did a public outreach they

1060
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:30,250
see our outreach took to collect

1061
00:59:36,220 --> 00:59:33,130
alternative ideas from the public

1062
00:59:38,290 --> 00:59:36,230
thousands came in of ideas and we are

1063
00:59:41,500 --> 00:59:38,300
all evaluated for us by the rent

1064
00:59:44,350 --> 00:59:41,510
cooperation there are lots of science

1065
00:59:47,110 --> 00:59:44,360
fiction ideas in there very few made

1066
00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:47,120
really sense because we had already in

1067
00:59:50,530 --> 00:59:48,650
the previous years covered the

1068
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:50,540
waterfront we had all the ideas already

1069
00:59:55,930 --> 00:59:53,930
there were no big surprises but or

1070
01:00:01,720 --> 00:59:55,940
incorporation organised them properly

1071
01:00:05,020 --> 01:00:01,730
and we set up a special committee headed

1072
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:05,030
by General Thomas Stepford Apollo 10

1073
01:00:11,650 --> 01:00:08,090
astronaut and a STP astronaut very

1074
01:00:14,350 --> 01:00:11,660
respected men even today still around

1075
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:14,360
and helping us with the Russians the

1076
01:00:18,550 --> 01:00:16,850
so-called synthesis group and the

1077
01:00:21,100 --> 01:00:18,560
synthesis group under Tom Stafford

1078
01:00:23,830 --> 01:00:21,110
distill it all the results of the rain

1079
01:00:27,570 --> 01:00:23,840
study down into four prime alternative

1080
01:00:35,230 --> 01:00:27,580
exploration architectures which now

1081
01:00:38,590 --> 01:00:35,240
brings us to 1990 this is takes me back

1082
01:00:40,900 --> 01:00:38,600
to the inner via picture earlier because

1083
01:00:43,420 --> 01:00:40,910
the mouse underground people the

1084
01:00:44,790 --> 01:00:43,430
external people got together with the

1085
01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:44,800
Russians

1086
01:00:50,730 --> 01:00:48,370
in Grosskopf ego Gorshkov who had come

1087
01:00:52,530 --> 01:00:50,740
up with their own Mouse plans and so our

1088
01:00:55,950 --> 01:00:52,540
people thought he might be a great idea

1089
01:00:59,930 --> 01:00:55,960
to use a Russian energy as a launch

1090
01:01:03,560 --> 01:00:59,940
vehicle heavy launcher for a mouse and

1091
01:01:07,890 --> 01:01:03,570
so they distributed all kinds of ads

1092
01:01:12,860 --> 01:01:07,900
looking like that what semyonov in

1093
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:12,870
Grosskopf back in the 80s had developed

1094
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:15,370
and you can you can actually get it on

1095
01:01:22,230 --> 01:01:18,010
online the owner gear people put it on

1096
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:22,240
their internet is this mouse concept

1097
01:01:31,860 --> 01:01:25,090
using only electric propulsion where you

1098
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:31,870
have to spiral out from Earth on the

1099
01:01:37,350 --> 01:01:35,290
here on the right lower corner and once

1100
01:01:39,930 --> 01:01:37,360
you are fast enough I do have to spiral

1101
01:01:43,370 --> 01:01:39,940
out because electric propulsion has is

1102
01:01:45,450 --> 01:01:43,380
so much low thrust it's just you know

1103
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:45,460
blowing against the sheet of paper

1104
01:01:51,660 --> 01:01:48,130
almost but it goes for days and weeks

1105
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:51,670
and months so the thrust force adds up

1106
01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:53,890
and the velocity adds up which means

1107
01:01:58,800 --> 01:01:56,290
they have to work a long time electric

1108
01:02:01,170 --> 01:01:58,810
propulsion but they do add up to very

1109
01:02:03,300 --> 01:02:01,180
high velocities and so you need to

1110
01:02:05,820 --> 01:02:03,310
spiral out until we were fast enough to

1111
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:05,830
break away and go to trans mass

1112
01:02:11,070 --> 01:02:08,290
injection and then do the same on mass

1113
01:02:13,530 --> 01:02:11,080
spiral in and land and then come back to

1114
01:02:15,570 --> 01:02:13,540
earth it was what Simeon of an gorshkov

1115
01:02:19,010 --> 01:02:15,580
at that time proposed and our people

1116
01:02:22,620 --> 01:02:19,020
thought hey we could use the energy ax

1117
01:02:28,380 --> 01:02:22,630
rocket that big power pack with our own

1118
01:02:31,350 --> 01:02:28,390
spaceship nuclear developments I got

1119
01:02:34,410 --> 01:02:31,360
that from a Russian presentation a few

1120
01:02:36,300 --> 01:02:34,420
weeks ago we're going on in both

1121
01:02:39,450 --> 01:02:36,310
countries on the left our Nova

1122
01:02:42,570 --> 01:02:39,460
development on the right as a Russian

1123
01:02:44,010 --> 01:02:42,580
nuclear rocket engine with parameters

1124
01:02:46,620 --> 01:02:44,020
which showed that both of them had

1125
01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:46,630
already undergone quite a number of

1126
01:02:52,770 --> 01:02:49,930
tests and power on different power

1127
01:02:54,550 --> 01:02:52,780
levels we called our program first free

1128
01:02:58,530 --> 01:02:54,560
booze the fables program

1129
01:03:03,430 --> 01:02:58,540
and the Nova engine nuclear engine

1130
01:03:07,090 --> 01:03:03,440
rocket of vehicle application Nerva ner

1131
01:03:10,330 --> 01:03:07,100
VA and we put it into a rocket stage

1132
01:03:12,550 --> 01:03:10,340
called lift rocket reactor in flight

1133
01:03:15,580 --> 01:03:12,560
test that we actually had a program

1134
01:03:18,540 --> 01:03:15,590
office at Marshall which designed the

1135
01:03:21,220 --> 01:03:18,550
rift stage for an upper stage for the 75

1136
01:03:24,700 --> 01:03:21,230
the Russians did it similarly with their

1137
01:03:27,940 --> 01:03:24,710
NR e and then of course the nuclear test

1138
01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:27,950
ban treaty later on put a stop to all of

1139
01:03:33,220 --> 01:03:31,130
that those tests were not done in open

1140
01:03:36,010 --> 01:03:33,230
air they were done in enclosed

1141
01:03:37,510 --> 01:03:36,020
environments underground and so on so we

1142
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:37,520
didn't really in danger the atmosphere

1143
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:39,530
with our testing and we never would have

1144
01:03:45,580 --> 01:03:42,650
ignited a nuclear engine while still in

1145
01:03:48,550 --> 01:03:45,590
the atmosphere all the program plans for

1146
01:03:50,620 --> 01:03:48,560
Mars always assumed that the upper

1147
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:50,630
stages in nuclear propulsion would be

1148
01:03:56,740 --> 01:03:53,210
ignited way away from the atmosphere out

1149
01:03:58,780 --> 01:03:56,750
in empty space but still we fail under

1150
01:04:01,980 --> 01:03:58,790
that nuclear test ban treaty and so at

1151
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:01,990
that time or the nuclear efforts stopped

1152
01:04:08,500 --> 01:04:05,690
today the Russians have this type of

1153
01:04:13,350 --> 01:04:08,510
concept they are using a combination of

1154
01:04:17,740 --> 01:04:13,360
nuclear and electric this particular one

1155
01:04:20,470 --> 01:04:17,750
uses in on the the rocket engine is on

1156
01:04:23,500 --> 01:04:20,480
the far right and the electric

1157
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:23,510
propulsion units are there those red

1158
01:04:33,010 --> 01:04:30,010
little red thrusters which are the Marty

1159
01:04:35,140 --> 01:04:33,020
in-flight propulsion which go on for

1160
01:04:38,740 --> 01:04:35,150
weeks and weeks the payload is green

1161
01:04:41,430 --> 01:04:38,750
number one and the blue area is the

1162
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:41,440
radiator for cooling the nuclear

1163
01:04:46,810 --> 01:04:44,330
propulsion system in this particular

1164
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:46,820
case it's using a droplet radiator

1165
01:04:53,110 --> 01:04:50,330
cooling and in this one it's the same

1166
01:04:57,850 --> 01:04:53,120
way heated but it uses a radiating

1167
01:05:00,820 --> 01:04:57,860
cooler using a normal and normal

1168
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:00,830
radiator like we have on thank you like

1169
01:05:07,500 --> 01:05:05,450
we have on on the ISS for

1170
01:05:10,050 --> 01:05:07,510
cooling the engine so this is what

1171
01:05:19,770 --> 01:05:10,060
Russian devices are showing right now

1172
01:05:23,800 --> 01:05:19,780
mr. coati f of the Kelly dish Research

1173
01:05:26,380 --> 01:05:23,810
Corporation has shown that around in his

1174
01:05:28,300 --> 01:05:26,390
presentation so they aren't they are

1175
01:05:31,089 --> 01:05:28,310
doing it they're working it and we are

1176
01:05:33,160 --> 01:05:31,099
actually thinking of talking to them

1177
01:05:36,640 --> 01:05:33,170
about nuclear rocket development or or

1178
01:05:38,589 --> 01:05:36,650
in in orbit propulsion so we are not

1179
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:38,599
really limiting to lukla area we also

1180
01:05:44,530 --> 01:05:42,050
mean electric propulsion and if they are

1181
01:05:48,280 --> 01:05:44,540
already ahead of us because they are not

1182
01:05:51,970 --> 01:05:48,290
so much limited by popular you know

1183
01:05:55,079 --> 01:05:51,980
antipathy we auto get together and so

1184
01:06:00,910 --> 01:05:55,089
some talks are being done in that area

1185
01:06:03,579 --> 01:06:00,920
well this takes us now into the 1980s no

1186
01:06:06,550 --> 01:06:03,589
no no this is still 90 80 here we had

1187
01:06:09,670 --> 01:06:06,560
internal studies those are some books I

1188
01:06:15,670 --> 01:06:09,680
got a collected back in at Marshall in

1189
01:06:19,569 --> 01:06:15,680
86 where we had symposia where we came

1190
01:06:22,120 --> 01:06:19,579
up with a mouse NASA reference mission

1191
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:22,130
and that really basically hasn't changed

1192
01:06:27,370 --> 01:06:24,890
too much when when we wanted to fly to

1193
01:06:32,859 --> 01:06:27,380
Mars we are talking about two launches

1194
01:06:35,859 --> 01:06:32,869
one flying in the first year with a

1195
01:06:39,339 --> 01:06:35,869
cargo flight which deposits deposits

1196
01:06:42,069 --> 01:06:39,349
some equipment or Mouse a habitat or

1197
01:06:45,220 --> 01:06:42,079
baby even a kind of a little factory

1198
01:06:48,670 --> 01:06:45,230
which uses a zoo in situ resource

1199
01:06:52,690 --> 01:06:48,680
utilization is are you and Pope and

1200
01:06:58,839 --> 01:06:52,700
actually goes to work producing oxygen

1201
01:07:02,500 --> 01:06:58,849
or hydrogen particularly methane ch4 s4s

1202
01:07:05,140 --> 01:07:02,510
propellant and about two and A two and a

1203
01:07:08,109 --> 01:07:05,150
half years to point 13 years later the

1204
01:07:10,809 --> 01:07:08,119
second launch vehicle would carry people

1205
01:07:15,099 --> 01:07:10,819
behind it so we have two flights

1206
01:07:17,710 --> 01:07:15,109
separated by a sea nautic period when

1207
01:07:20,650 --> 01:07:17,720
you fly to Mars those

1208
01:07:23,950 --> 01:07:20,660
optimum constellation opportunities

1209
01:07:25,930 --> 01:07:23,960
repeat only every two years and then you

1210
01:07:27,609 --> 01:07:25,940
have to wait so once you're sitting on

1211
01:07:30,790 --> 01:07:27,619
Mars and waiting for the next resupply

1212
01:07:33,940 --> 01:07:30,800
you have to wait for two point 13 years

1213
01:07:35,740 --> 01:07:33,950
until the constellation you know the the

1214
01:07:38,250 --> 01:07:35,750
positions of Earth and Mars are just

1215
01:07:40,990 --> 01:07:38,260
right to get to you with minimum energy

1216
01:07:43,660 --> 01:07:41,000
so basically that another reference

1217
01:07:50,440 --> 01:07:43,670
mission is still around and it's still

1218
01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:50,450
being used today those studies came up

1219
01:07:57,160 --> 01:07:54,410
with habitat concepts like here what

1220
01:08:03,550 --> 01:07:57,170
I've done is I cut this panorama picture

1221
01:08:05,770 --> 01:08:03,560
in half so the lower left rim of the

1222
01:08:08,770 --> 01:08:05,780
picture should be attached to the upper

1223
01:08:10,780 --> 01:08:08,780
right one of the picture then you get

1224
01:08:14,680 --> 01:08:10,790
kind of a feeling of what they were

1225
01:08:19,329 --> 01:08:14,690
talking about in those years those

1226
01:08:21,760 --> 01:08:19,339
studies develop those concepts they were

1227
01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:21,770
done at various places with on by NASA

1228
01:08:28,420 --> 01:08:26,810
people with sponsorship by on the left

1229
01:08:35,380 --> 01:08:28,430
side the lunar and planetary institute

1230
01:08:39,809 --> 01:08:35,390
in Houston in 1992 and by Ames in 1993

1231
01:08:43,240 --> 01:08:39,819
so we did get other centers involved

1232
01:08:46,599 --> 01:08:43,250
that's another concept which came out of

1233
01:08:50,979 --> 01:08:46,609
those years showing two habitats we

1234
01:08:54,130 --> 01:08:50,989
still always were talking to things in

1235
01:08:58,059 --> 01:08:54,140
order to have a backup capability there

1236
01:09:02,890 --> 01:08:58,069
was later reduced when some more cuts

1237
01:09:08,380 --> 01:09:02,900
were done before I get to this a few

1238
01:09:11,920 --> 01:09:08,390
words no skill to the sei by george bush

1239
01:09:15,789 --> 01:09:11,930
by george HW bush it was farsighted and

1240
01:09:19,660 --> 01:09:15,799
logically a good road map but there was

1241
01:09:23,649 --> 01:09:19,670
no funding link to it in Kristen I think

1242
01:09:32,180 --> 01:09:28,030
Bush jr. did the same thing to us

1243
01:09:36,079 --> 01:09:32,190
estimates by NASA were in the in the

1244
01:09:40,249 --> 01:09:36,089
range of 400 to 500 billion spread over

1245
01:09:45,079 --> 01:09:40,259
30 years but that immediately you know

1246
01:09:46,970 --> 01:09:45,089
kind of you know was rejected by

1247
01:09:50,030 --> 01:09:46,980
Congress a it didn't receive any

1248
01:09:52,370 --> 01:09:50,040
favorable comments 400 billion what are

1249
01:09:54,709 --> 01:09:52,380
you talking about and we were hey it's

1250
01:09:56,959 --> 01:09:54,719
right over 30 years Oh 400 mean it is so

1251
01:09:58,819 --> 01:09:56,969
much and today when you look at the

1252
01:10:00,439 --> 01:09:58,829
economic crisis what some of the banks

1253
01:10:02,510 --> 01:10:00,449
have been doing you know for them

1254
01:10:07,129 --> 01:10:02,520
hundreds of billions is you know peanuts

1255
01:10:09,859 --> 01:10:07,139
so at that time 1980 looked like a lot

1256
01:10:14,089 --> 01:10:09,869
of money and it did away unfortunately

1257
01:10:16,220 --> 01:10:14,099
with a beautiful old map we maybe

1258
01:10:20,870 --> 01:10:16,230
shouldn't have costed out the whole

1259
01:10:23,479 --> 01:10:20,880
thing the whole piece of potato the

1260
01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:23,489
whole 30 years we should have NASA

1261
01:10:30,140 --> 01:10:25,290
should have probably approached it in a

1262
01:10:31,879 --> 01:10:30,150
different way to get it across in 93 in

1263
01:10:36,040 --> 01:10:31,889
the Clinton administration which

1264
01:10:39,919 --> 01:10:36,050
followed the bush senior administration

1265
01:10:43,120 --> 01:10:39,929
SAE kicked the bucket but it wasn't

1266
01:10:46,609 --> 01:10:43,130
really dead at NASA particularly at JSC

1267
01:10:50,479 --> 01:10:46,619
se I did not entirely disappear it

1268
01:10:55,700 --> 01:10:50,489
mutated in all kinds of mostly in how

1269
01:11:03,589 --> 01:10:55,710
studies first came a fellow flow first

1270
01:11:06,859 --> 01:11:03,599
lunar of outpost done it at JSC and mike

1271
01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:06,869
griffin who we all fondly remember was

1272
01:11:14,780 --> 01:11:11,250
at that time head of exploration here at

1273
01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:14,790
headquarters so my griffin extended flow

1274
01:11:20,899 --> 01:11:18,090
of first lunar outpost to include mouse

1275
01:11:24,680 --> 01:11:20,909
because he felt like we did many years

1276
01:11:27,109 --> 01:11:24,690
before that commonality of engineering

1277
01:11:28,970 --> 01:11:27,119
developments could save money and if you

1278
01:11:32,390 --> 01:11:28,980
develop anything for the lunar outpost

1279
01:11:35,089 --> 01:11:32,400
you might as well use it also for mars

1280
01:11:35,810 --> 01:11:35,099
and so he folded mouse into it and the

1281
01:11:38,839 --> 01:11:35,820
outcome

1282
01:11:43,459 --> 01:11:38,849
was the first of several DRMs design

1283
01:11:45,109 --> 01:11:43,469
reference mission when he been my cliff

1284
01:11:48,530 --> 01:11:45,119
and headed exploration here at the

1285
01:11:51,709 --> 01:11:48,540
headquarters the drm one design

1286
01:11:55,280 --> 01:11:51,719
reference mission one still needed an

1287
01:11:56,660 --> 01:11:55,290
heavy lifter you cannot go beyond

1288
01:11:59,810 --> 01:11:56,670
Earth's orbit without a heavy-lift

1289
01:12:04,220 --> 01:11:59,820
launch vehicle and the one they came up

1290
01:12:07,339 --> 01:12:04,230
with was launched 240 tons to earth

1291
01:12:10,479 --> 01:12:07,349
orbit double of what the 75 could have

1292
01:12:13,459 --> 01:12:10,489
done that was the idea ee said and five

1293
01:12:17,089 --> 01:12:13,469
capability and it would have bought 100

1294
01:12:19,850 --> 01:12:17,099
tons to mouse stated there was no

1295
01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:19,860
station involved no orbital assembly in

1296
01:12:25,910 --> 01:12:23,010
or in Earth orbit required a crew of six

1297
01:12:28,850 --> 01:12:25,920
and they would rely they would use that

1298
01:12:31,850 --> 01:12:28,860
particular mode I just indicated first

1299
01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:31,860
cargo launch and then several car loans

1300
01:12:37,399 --> 01:12:33,810
in fact three cargo launches and then

1301
01:12:39,970 --> 01:12:37,409
people with a force afterwards and they

1302
01:12:44,169 --> 01:12:39,980
used is are you they would have to

1303
01:12:46,879 --> 01:12:44,179
depend on in situ resource utilization

1304
01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:46,889
that means the first cargo flights had

1305
01:12:51,830 --> 01:12:48,810
to prove the pudding that actually

1306
01:12:53,660 --> 01:12:51,840
something could be done about it and if

1307
01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:53,670
not then they would have had to take nor

1308
01:13:02,120 --> 01:12:55,530
the return propellant along instead of

1309
01:13:06,109 --> 01:13:02,130
manufacturing it on Mars that was in the

1310
01:13:08,390 --> 01:13:06,119
90s and things were going really slowly

1311
01:13:10,160 --> 01:13:08,400
we had sudden flight photo shutter

1312
01:13:16,280 --> 01:13:10,170
flights going on we had the space

1313
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:16,290
station when all of a sudden a is a

1314
01:13:25,629 --> 01:13:20,010
meteorite was found in 1996 a mouse

1315
01:13:31,129 --> 01:13:25,639
meteoroid aah 8400 one which had

1316
01:13:34,280 --> 01:13:31,139
allegedly Mike robic life or science or

1317
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:34,290
former microbial I've inside which

1318
01:13:39,290 --> 01:13:36,810
indicated to a lot of people hate there

1319
01:13:41,649 --> 01:13:39,300
could have been life on Mars if that mal

1320
01:13:44,750 --> 01:13:41,659
if that matter meteorite came from us

1321
01:13:46,819 --> 01:13:44,760
those microbes inside could prove that

1322
01:13:49,460 --> 01:13:46,829
there's life on Mars which immediately

1323
01:13:51,980 --> 01:13:49,470
raised public interest in mass

1324
01:13:55,010 --> 01:13:51,990
particularly in Bill Clinton and he made

1325
01:13:58,720 --> 01:13:55,020
a big you know White House announcement

1326
01:14:02,680 --> 01:13:58,730
out of that that nASA has found mouse

1327
01:14:05,810 --> 01:14:02,690
living mouse beings in a mouse meteoroid

1328
01:14:08,330 --> 01:14:05,820
never no never was proven that this was

1329
01:14:12,260 --> 01:14:08,340
actually microbes there were all kinds

1330
01:14:15,410 --> 01:14:12,270
of opposing explanations so even up to

1331
01:14:17,990 --> 01:14:15,420
today we don't really know what what it

1332
01:14:20,140 --> 01:14:18,000
was what they found in there but it did

1333
01:14:23,390 --> 01:14:20,150
raise public interest tremendously and

1334
01:14:25,520 --> 01:14:23,400
it did particularly do as good in that

1335
01:14:28,160 --> 01:14:25,530
the exploration office at JSC was

1336
01:14:30,200 --> 01:14:28,170
reestablished JSC wound up with a new

1337
01:14:33,500 --> 01:14:30,210
exploration of his because mostly of

1338
01:14:37,280 --> 01:14:33,510
that meteorite well they immediately

1339
01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:37,290
went into the dr amin came up with new

1340
01:14:45,500 --> 01:14:40,650
design reference missions particularly

1341
01:14:49,370 --> 01:14:45,510
number three drm three was done by

1342
01:14:53,150 --> 01:14:49,380
scrubbing dm1 down make it more modest

1343
01:14:58,880 --> 01:14:53,160
in nineteen nineteen ninety-seven it had

1344
01:15:00,890 --> 01:14:58,890
a nuclear thermal rocket stage it had a

1345
01:15:04,640 --> 01:15:00,900
Saturday high floor heater but not a

1346
01:15:07,490 --> 01:15:04,650
heavy lift launch later it had in situ

1347
01:15:10,910 --> 01:15:07,500
resource utilization and launched only

1348
01:15:14,180 --> 01:15:10,920
one habitat to Mars instead of two so it

1349
01:15:18,320 --> 01:15:14,190
used half of the launch vehicles on

1350
01:15:22,400 --> 01:15:18,330
earth and then we went in came to the

1351
01:15:25,430 --> 01:15:22,410
year two thousand and drm for was the

1352
01:15:28,700 --> 01:15:25,440
next one which was a new iteration on

1353
01:15:33,560 --> 01:15:28,710
the design reference mission which

1354
01:15:37,700 --> 01:15:33,570
helped President George W Bush who was

1355
01:15:40,520 --> 01:15:37,710
president now president in january 2004

1356
01:15:43,220 --> 01:15:40,530
to come in here in that auditorium up

1357
01:15:45,890 --> 01:15:43,230
front and proposed the constellation

1358
01:15:47,420 --> 01:15:45,900
program I remember that day was we were

1359
01:15:49,850 --> 01:15:47,430
all totally excited we over the whole

1360
01:15:52,070 --> 01:15:49,860
bunch of genuine astronauts sitting

1361
01:15:54,840 --> 01:15:52,080
there in their flight suits Gene Cernan

1362
01:15:57,810 --> 01:15:54,850
was air and and

1363
01:16:01,050 --> 01:15:57,820
President Bush went to him and that gene

1364
01:16:04,479 --> 01:16:01,060
you when you were on moon with Apollo 17

1365
01:16:06,940 --> 01:16:04,489
you were the last man on the moon and I

1366
01:16:09,430 --> 01:16:06,950
tell you you are not going to remain the

1367
01:16:12,850 --> 01:16:09,440
last man on the moon so he promised it

1368
01:16:16,270 --> 01:16:12,860
but there was no money attached to those

1369
01:16:22,420 --> 01:16:16,280
beautiful plans so we got constellation

1370
01:16:23,950 --> 01:16:22,430
which spawned a vase one and RS 5 the

1371
01:16:28,780 --> 01:16:23,960
outside would have been the heavy lifter

1372
01:16:31,540 --> 01:16:28,790
which we need desperately and they went

1373
01:16:36,340 --> 01:16:31,550
through this particular architectural

1374
01:16:39,970 --> 01:16:36,350
trade tree and when you see all those

1375
01:16:42,940 --> 01:16:39,980
red crosses that's where you know

1376
01:16:45,729 --> 01:16:42,950
developments were mixed were not used

1377
01:16:50,040 --> 01:16:45,739
but the light blue line is what finally

1378
01:16:52,150 --> 01:16:50,050
was settled on after going through 48

1379
01:16:55,660 --> 01:16:52,160
configurations at the bottom you see all

1380
01:16:59,979 --> 01:16:55,670
the different configurations which come

1381
01:17:02,320 --> 01:16:59,989
from combining the various options in

1382
01:17:04,479 --> 01:17:02,330
the various areas I can't read it from

1383
01:17:08,760 --> 01:17:04,489
here all the time but you see that

1384
01:17:13,060 --> 01:17:08,770
propulsion decisions were made and that

1385
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:13,070
a pre deploy missions were selected

1386
01:17:19,420 --> 01:17:16,010
redeploy means you launch your unmanned

1387
01:17:21,220 --> 01:17:19,430
payload first and so finally they round

1388
01:17:25,540 --> 01:17:21,230
up with in light blue line which is

1389
01:17:28,750 --> 01:17:25,550
essentially what the dr a5 is all about

1390
01:17:31,420 --> 01:17:28,760
and probably hopefully remains this is

1391
01:17:34,600 --> 01:17:31,430
what the flight plan looked looks like

1392
01:17:38,650 --> 01:17:34,610
and hopefully will look like in a very

1393
01:17:44,410 --> 01:17:38,660
reasonable time frame departure on earth

1394
01:17:48,580 --> 01:17:44,420
in 20 35 for the cargo flight and

1395
01:17:53,140 --> 01:17:48,590
landing in twenty thirty six on Mars and

1396
01:17:56,380 --> 01:17:53,150
then the second flight with the people

1397
01:18:01,660 --> 01:17:56,390
on board launching in August twenty

1398
01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:01,670
thirty seven and returning in February

1399
01:18:08,020 --> 01:18:05,890
2038 so even today when you talk to

1400
01:18:10,750 --> 01:18:08,030
President Obama or

1401
01:18:12,940 --> 01:18:10,760
anyone they all say well I think by the

1402
01:18:17,200 --> 01:18:12,950
1930s we should be able to do it and

1403
01:18:19,510 --> 01:18:17,210
it's based on the idea idea i'm dr a 5

1404
01:18:23,650 --> 01:18:19,520
the architecture it's not m it's a

1405
01:18:25,390 --> 01:18:23,660
picture so let's cling to that let's

1406
01:18:32,860 --> 01:18:25,400
hope that we can make something out of

1407
01:18:36,250 --> 01:18:32,870
it the Russians i mentioned that are

1408
01:18:40,750 --> 01:18:36,260
working at the same time they are doing

1409
01:18:42,940 --> 01:18:40,760
their work in a very more visible way

1410
01:18:46,690 --> 01:18:42,950
they have a simulation program going on

1411
01:18:50,590 --> 01:18:46,700
called mass 500 which we visited some

1412
01:18:54,000 --> 01:18:50,600
time ago in Moscow it's one by IBM p

1413
01:18:57,100 --> 01:18:54,010
Institute of biomedical problems and

1414
01:18:59,890 --> 01:18:57,110
there are six crewmen members locked up

1415
01:19:03,060 --> 01:18:59,900
in a mass ship simulation with various

1416
01:19:06,600 --> 01:19:03,070
modules they landed on Mouse simulated

1417
01:19:09,250 --> 01:19:06,610
and actually exited into another module

1418
01:19:11,740 --> 01:19:09,260
which had a simulated mouth surface

1419
01:19:13,750 --> 01:19:11,750
leaded in spacesuits and they did

1420
01:19:15,640 --> 01:19:13,760
various things went back on board and

1421
01:19:18,970 --> 01:19:15,650
they are now on their flight back to

1422
01:19:21,760 --> 01:19:18,980
earth which takes 280 days or

1423
01:19:26,560 --> 01:19:21,770
thereabouts there are six guys are

1424
01:19:35,590 --> 01:19:26,570
locked up in there three Russians one

1425
01:19:38,890 --> 01:19:35,600
European one Chinese and yeah in South

1426
01:19:40,960 --> 01:19:38,900
China and for our sins so they are on

1427
01:19:43,270 --> 01:19:40,970
the return trip the mission will end

1428
01:19:46,810 --> 01:19:43,280
that means a land on Earth in November

1429
01:19:48,820 --> 01:19:46,820
2011 a few months from now and there may

1430
01:19:51,250 --> 01:19:48,830
be followers they've been talking to us

1431
01:19:53,710 --> 01:19:51,260
and we to them how can we use their

1432
01:19:57,280 --> 01:19:53,720
experience in locking up these people

1433
01:19:58,630 --> 01:19:57,290
for you know well over a year and they

1434
01:20:01,810 --> 01:19:58,640
are still alive apparently I haven't

1435
01:20:04,390 --> 01:20:01,820
killed each other yet I'm following that

1436
01:20:06,310 --> 01:20:04,400
every time a board they have every time

1437
01:20:11,800 --> 01:20:06,320
and I when I talk to these people they

1438
01:20:13,330 --> 01:20:11,810
are in good shape and the the

1439
01:20:15,940 --> 01:20:13,340
information being collected by the

1440
01:20:18,460 --> 01:20:15,950
doctors particularly and the nutrition

1441
01:20:20,080 --> 01:20:18,470
people and so on is tremendous we should

1442
01:20:24,129 --> 01:20:20,090
make use of that one day

1443
01:20:29,320 --> 01:20:24,139
you can get together in similar similar

1444
01:20:37,890 --> 01:20:29,330
things so we have now essentially this

1445
01:21:03,399 --> 01:20:59,950
course okay anyway you see there are two

1446
01:21:05,470 --> 01:21:03,409
other two ships and they are 26 months a

1447
01:21:07,510 --> 01:21:05,480
separate which is the Nordic period i

1448
01:21:11,379 --> 01:21:07,520
mentioned they land on Earth in their

1449
01:21:14,229 --> 01:21:11,389
comeback and the whole trip takes fifty

1450
01:21:15,760 --> 01:21:14,239
six months and it's very reasonable

1451
01:21:18,729 --> 01:21:15,770
there is nothing you can improve on it

1452
01:21:21,040 --> 01:21:18,739
basically it's the same approach from

1453
01:21:24,760 --> 01:21:21,050
brown used and we all used in the 60s

1454
01:21:26,260 --> 01:21:24,770
it's never changed in 60 years we just

1455
01:21:29,680 --> 01:21:26,270
you know fiddle around with propulsion

1456
01:21:32,160 --> 01:21:29,690
systems and have better life support

1457
01:21:36,220 --> 01:21:32,170
systems today we have a better grip on

1458
01:21:38,589 --> 01:21:36,230
reliabilities on safety of course so

1459
01:21:41,410 --> 01:21:38,599
masses have come down things don't have

1460
01:21:43,479 --> 01:21:41,420
to be so heavy with all what we have

1461
01:21:49,660 --> 01:21:43,489
learned but there are still a whole

1462
01:21:52,870 --> 01:21:49,670
bunch of unknown things which I've

1463
01:21:56,320 --> 01:21:52,880
pulled together here well this is you

1464
01:21:58,629 --> 01:21:56,330
know what the dr a5 kind of had in mind

1465
01:22:01,810 --> 01:21:58,639
a little bit it's on their report that

1466
01:22:04,229 --> 01:22:01,820
pictured title picture this essentially

1467
01:22:07,439 --> 01:22:04,239
what we still need to do what is

1468
01:22:10,300 --> 01:22:07,449
critical transportation and propulsion

1469
01:22:13,060 --> 01:22:10,310
local resource utilization cryogenic

1470
01:22:15,550 --> 01:22:13,070
liquid gas systems storage for example

1471
01:22:19,959 --> 01:22:15,560
long-term storage co ji handling and

1472
01:22:22,600 --> 01:22:19,969
transfer EV a systems which you protect

1473
01:22:25,359 --> 01:22:22,610
against dust a lot long-lasting

1474
01:22:27,280 --> 01:22:25,369
lightweight highly flexible space suits

1475
01:22:29,740 --> 01:22:27,290
and gloves lightweight and serviceable

1476
01:22:32,630 --> 01:22:29,750
EV a life-support system regenerative

1477
01:22:37,250 --> 01:22:32,640
life support systems hopefully closed

1478
01:22:39,950 --> 01:22:37,260
cycles for most of what we need surface

1479
01:22:41,510 --> 01:22:39,960
habitats and building techniques human

1480
01:22:43,670 --> 01:22:41,520
health and productivity co chodzi

1481
01:22:45,350 --> 01:22:43,680
adaptation and countermeasures human

1482
01:22:47,600 --> 01:22:45,360
factors health maintenance radiation

1483
01:22:50,870 --> 01:22:47,610
protection energy production and storage

1484
01:22:53,450 --> 01:22:50,880
with regenerative fuel sales in surface

1485
01:22:56,240 --> 01:22:53,460
nuclear power systems mouse is further

1486
01:22:59,180 --> 01:22:56,250
away from the Sun so we cannot really

1487
01:23:03,890 --> 01:22:59,190
Bank on solar electric power if you want

1488
01:23:06,650 --> 01:23:03,900
to run issue in situ resource

1489
01:23:11,120 --> 01:23:06,660
utilization machinery there we do need a

1490
01:23:13,970 --> 01:23:11,130
do clear energy source on them on on

1491
01:23:16,100 --> 01:23:13,980
Mars Taylor operation is hella robotics

1492
01:23:18,250 --> 01:23:16,110
remote control operations fine control

1493
01:23:21,380 --> 01:23:18,260
manipulator so I used operator training

1494
01:23:23,180 --> 01:23:21,390
with the large distance it takes like 20

1495
01:23:25,580 --> 01:23:23,190
minutes for a radio signal to come back

1496
01:23:27,860 --> 01:23:25,590
to earth and then we have to react and

1497
01:23:30,470 --> 01:23:27,870
send pic our commands takes another 20

1498
01:23:35,720 --> 01:23:30,480
minutes in their time you know they may

1499
01:23:38,090 --> 01:23:35,730
have already driven or somehow made a

1500
01:23:44,120 --> 01:23:38,100
mistake so people the crews have to be

1501
01:23:45,980 --> 01:23:44,130
much more independent much more sales on

1502
01:23:48,890 --> 01:23:45,990
the day and we can simulate that already

1503
01:23:51,440 --> 01:23:48,900
on the ISS for example by cutting down

1504
01:23:54,800 --> 01:23:51,450
on communications and by putting more

1505
01:23:56,630 --> 01:23:54,810
reliance more safe determination on crew

1506
01:23:58,580 --> 01:23:56,640
members so that they don't have to rely

1507
01:24:01,520 --> 01:23:58,590
on Mission Control centers all the time

1508
01:24:03,950 --> 01:24:01,530
with every little bit and our computers

1509
01:24:05,720 --> 01:24:03,960
so those are some typical things we can

1510
01:24:09,680 --> 01:24:05,730
already simulate and the space station

1511
01:24:12,910 --> 01:24:09,690
ISS lends itself in a tremendous way for

1512
01:24:15,950 --> 01:24:12,920
a lot of these things which need gog and

1513
01:24:17,750 --> 01:24:15,960
also the psychology behind it you know

1514
01:24:21,950 --> 01:24:17,760
of being locked up in space and doing

1515
01:24:24,470 --> 01:24:21,960
certain things planetary rovers motor

1516
01:24:27,590 --> 01:24:24,480
oil lubrication materials for a long

1517
01:24:29,420 --> 01:24:27,600
term use best control advanced

1518
01:24:31,340 --> 01:24:29,430
operational tasks automatic systems

1519
01:24:32,860 --> 01:24:31,350
control systems management and

1520
01:24:35,980 --> 01:24:32,870
scheduling and simulation and training

1521
01:24:39,230 --> 01:24:35,990
maybe better virtual realities in behave

1522
01:24:43,310 --> 01:24:39,240
so that is what where we need to do

1523
01:24:46,100 --> 01:24:43,320
where we have have to get working and so

1524
01:24:48,530 --> 01:24:46,110
if not much it's a flight area

1525
01:24:50,630 --> 01:24:48,540
the next few years this is really where

1526
01:24:52,220 --> 01:24:50,640
people put their brains and where they

1527
01:25:00,170 --> 01:24:52,230
are work behind the scenery and where

1528
01:25:02,960 --> 01:25:00,180
things will be continuing to go on this

1529
01:25:06,020 --> 01:25:02,970
is before I have a few words of

1530
01:25:10,250 --> 01:25:06,030
conclusion here sweet nice quotes from

1531
01:25:12,350 --> 01:25:10,260
visionaries no one can know what humans

1532
01:25:15,050 --> 01:25:12,360
will find when they land on Mars all

1533
01:25:17,720 --> 01:25:15,060
that can be said with certainty is this

1534
01:25:20,540 --> 01:25:17,730
the trip can be made and will be made

1535
01:25:27,170 --> 01:25:20,550
some day that's what burner from brown

1536
01:25:31,790 --> 01:25:27,180
said to in Colliers magazine 1954 in

1537
01:25:33,800 --> 01:25:31,800
april edition secondly the expedition to

1538
01:25:36,620 --> 01:25:33,810
Mars should be seen as a crowning

1539
01:25:38,720 --> 01:25:36,630
achievement of a stepwise and often

1540
01:25:41,120 --> 01:25:38,730
painfully slow development of human

1541
01:25:44,360 --> 01:25:41,130
space flight which may require many

1542
01:25:46,970 --> 01:25:44,370
decades Wernher von Braun 1956 in

1543
01:25:50,120 --> 01:25:46,980
Frankfurt in the polls Cathedral and

1544
01:25:54,380 --> 01:25:50,130
then at the bottom what seemed to be

1545
01:25:57,080 --> 01:25:54,390
unrealizable for centuries and yesterday

1546
01:25:59,500 --> 01:25:57,090
was daring dream now becomes a real

1547
01:26:02,420 --> 01:25:59,510
challenge but tomorrow an accomplishment

1548
01:26:07,280 --> 01:26:02,430
there are no barriers to human thought

1549
01:26:09,680 --> 01:26:07,290
sergey pavlovich korolyov 1966 Pravda so

1550
01:26:11,630 --> 01:26:09,690
I would fully support what they're

1551
01:26:15,230 --> 01:26:11,640
saying but particularly the painfully

1552
01:26:21,170 --> 01:26:15,240
slow thing is something which I think he

1553
01:26:24,140 --> 01:26:21,180
hit it right there in conclusion in the

1554
01:26:27,500 --> 01:26:24,150
u.s. today the air is five the errors

1555
01:26:30,470 --> 01:26:27,510
one may have bitten the dust but a

1556
01:26:33,380 --> 01:26:30,480
heavy-lift waiter named TBD is being

1557
01:26:35,580 --> 01:26:33,390
studied maybe we should call it TBD you

1558
01:26:41,350 --> 01:26:38,800
you know because the ISS ISS because

1559
01:26:44,830 --> 01:26:41,360
nobody could recruit kind of find a good

1560
01:26:47,170 --> 01:26:44,840
name for it anyway so a heavy lift

1561
01:26:50,590 --> 01:26:47,180
vehicle name TBD is being studied for

1562
01:26:54,220 --> 01:26:50,600
development Orion is still alive in the

1563
01:26:56,770 --> 01:26:54,230
form of the MPC V and NASA support that

1564
01:26:59,740 --> 01:26:56,780
cuts efforts are underway to provide a

1565
01:27:02,860 --> 01:26:59,750
crude launcher to take the place vacated

1566
01:27:05,980 --> 01:27:02,870
by Alice one besides the starboard so

1567
01:27:08,350 --> 01:27:05,990
use in looking back over 60 years of

1568
01:27:13,300 --> 01:27:08,360
manned Mars mission studies what can we

1569
01:27:17,140 --> 01:27:13,310
see the view shows first of all that by

1570
01:27:20,170 --> 01:27:17,150
necessity near-term oriented politics is

1571
01:27:23,830 --> 01:27:20,180
ill-suited for deciding on such a

1572
01:27:25,780 --> 01:27:23,840
farsighted complex of questions but

1573
01:27:28,600 --> 01:27:25,790
visionary political leaders are

1574
01:27:33,790 --> 01:27:28,610
necessary and will again raise our

1575
01:27:37,660 --> 01:27:33,800
sights to more distant vistas the demise

1576
01:27:39,820 --> 01:27:37,670
of sei and constellation has not removed

1577
01:27:44,170 --> 01:27:39,830
Mars from NASA's field of view

1578
01:27:47,470 --> 01:27:44,180
especially that of its advanced planners

1579
01:27:50,350 --> 01:27:47,480
who on the one hand see NASA's

1580
01:27:52,630 --> 01:27:50,360
undisputed leadership and impetus giving

1581
01:27:55,870 --> 01:27:52,640
role in space science and space

1582
01:27:59,320 --> 01:27:55,880
exploration as a moral obligation to

1583
01:28:02,380 --> 01:27:59,330
future human generations and who on the

1584
01:28:05,170 --> 01:28:02,390
other hand realize how crucial for us

1585
01:28:08,850 --> 01:28:05,180
economy and strengths in aerospace and

1586
01:28:11,620 --> 01:28:08,860
other key industries it is to force

1587
01:28:14,370 --> 01:28:11,630
technological advances which in turn

1588
01:28:16,360 --> 01:28:14,380
provide new development momentum

1589
01:28:19,270 --> 01:28:16,370
multinational participation is

1590
01:28:22,090 --> 01:28:19,280
increasingly desirable not just for

1591
01:28:24,430 --> 01:28:22,100
economic reasons but more importantly

1592
01:28:27,670 --> 01:28:24,440
for raising levels of mutual

1593
01:28:31,030 --> 01:28:27,680
understanding tolerance and fearless in

1594
01:28:35,230 --> 01:28:31,040
the dependencies this calls for a common

1595
01:28:38,320 --> 01:28:35,240
cause on neutral uncontested grounds and

1596
01:28:42,370 --> 01:28:38,330
space is probably the only subscales we

1597
01:28:44,890 --> 01:28:42,380
have neutral and uncontested the ISS a

1598
01:28:48,160 --> 01:28:44,900
shining demonstration of a common cause

1599
01:28:50,729 --> 01:28:48,170
has already brought 60 nations peace

1600
01:28:54,010 --> 01:28:50,739
surely together over the past 11 years

1601
01:28:56,860 --> 01:28:54,020
now we will need a new and bigger common

1602
01:29:00,700 --> 01:28:56,870
cause with its aura with its sources and

1603
01:29:04,290 --> 01:29:00,710
man math provides it the reasons why

1604
01:29:08,740 --> 01:29:04,300
mayn't Mars are pretty straightforward

1605
01:29:10,780 --> 01:29:08,750
looking first of all looking for signs

1606
01:29:14,560 --> 01:29:10,790
of former or present day life on a

1607
01:29:16,780 --> 01:29:14,570
planet other than Earth second studying

1608
01:29:19,510 --> 01:29:16,790
Mars and its natural processes in

1609
01:29:21,580 --> 01:29:19,520
history to become smarter about our own

1610
01:29:25,209 --> 01:29:21,590
earth it's called comparative

1611
01:29:27,790 --> 01:29:25,219
planetology thirdly establishing a

1612
01:29:31,959 --> 01:29:27,800
foothold for humans to eventually live

1613
01:29:34,689 --> 01:29:31,969
on Mars force providing us with a new

1614
01:29:37,240 --> 01:29:34,699
source of economic returns and technol

1615
01:29:41,070 --> 01:29:37,250
scientific knowledge similar to the

1616
01:29:43,780 --> 01:29:41,080
Apollo program and five last not least

1617
01:29:46,689 --> 01:29:43,790
using the challenge of this unique

1618
01:29:50,650 --> 01:29:46,699
neighborly word as a common cause for

1619
01:29:52,840 --> 01:29:50,660
Earth's people to tackle together when

1620
01:29:55,630 --> 01:29:52,850
we'll be ready for project humans to

1621
01:30:03,580 --> 01:29:55,640
Mars in addition to the social political

1622
01:30:05,860 --> 01:30:03,590
and financial readiness it will require

1623
01:30:07,720 --> 01:30:05,870
the development of specific technologies

1624
01:30:10,450 --> 01:30:07,730
which have indicated they are such as

1625
01:30:12,370 --> 01:30:10,460
aerobraking cayo genic fuel stores and

1626
01:30:15,040 --> 01:30:12,380
equipment nuclear thermal and nuclear

1627
01:30:17,320 --> 01:30:15,050
electric propulsion systems photovoltaic

1628
01:30:20,140 --> 01:30:17,330
and nuclear energy sources for the base

1629
01:30:22,660 --> 01:30:20,150
operation closed-cycle life-support

1630
01:30:25,540 --> 01:30:22,670
systems automatic information systems

1631
01:30:28,600 --> 01:30:25,550
scientific instruments EV a systems

1632
01:30:31,570 --> 01:30:28,610
surface rovers and much more not in the

1633
01:30:35,620 --> 01:30:31,580
least it also requires substantial work

1634
01:30:37,780 --> 01:30:35,630
on and in the present day ISS which has

1635
01:30:40,180 --> 01:30:37,790
evolved from relatively modest

1636
01:30:42,310 --> 01:30:40,190
beginnings to a powerful and

1637
01:30:46,330 --> 01:30:42,320
sophisticated international world class

1638
01:30:49,450 --> 01:30:46,340
research facility all in all to be able

1639
01:30:52,000 --> 01:30:49,460
to conduct the mouse expedition in all

1640
01:30:54,850 --> 01:30:52,010
its phases with a high degree of mission

1641
01:30:57,370 --> 01:30:54,860
success probability a technological

1642
01:31:00,240 --> 01:30:57,380
capacity will be required which today is

1643
01:31:03,150 --> 01:31:00,250
still far from accessible to us

1644
01:31:05,840 --> 01:31:03,160
but its mastery will open incredibly new

1645
01:31:08,750 --> 01:31:05,850
possibilities for tomorrow's humankind

1646
01:31:11,910 --> 01:31:08,760
it's a most fundamental human level

1647
01:31:15,030 --> 01:31:11,920
those 60 years are telling me are

1648
01:31:16,700 --> 01:31:15,040
telling us here at NASA if you are in

1649
01:31:34,590 --> 01:31:16,710
the business of getting people to Mars

1650
01:31:36,300 --> 01:31:34,600
never give up thank you yeah I have to

1651
01:31:45,540 --> 01:31:36,310
be glad to take questions I can answer

1652
01:32:02,800 --> 01:31:45,550
of course anyone did I say anyone

1653
01:32:02,810 --> 01:32:15,400
new address

1654
01:32:22,310 --> 01:32:19,220
yeah I did still an open issue a final

1655
01:32:25,340 --> 01:32:22,320
word has not been said yet it takes it

1656
01:32:28,880 --> 01:32:25,350
takes experiment experimentation in situ

1657
01:32:30,830 --> 01:32:28,890
in space in co ji a lot you know they

1658
01:32:34,460 --> 01:32:30,840
are talks about actually putting a

1659
01:32:36,650 --> 01:32:34,470
centrifuge on the ISS eventually I think

1660
01:32:41,960 --> 01:32:36,660
this will be pursued I know it's going

1661
01:32:44,990 --> 01:32:41,970
on and you either are able to get away

1662
01:32:49,270 --> 01:32:45,000
with living in weightlessness all the

1663
01:32:51,800 --> 01:32:49,280
time by doing your proper exercise our

1664
01:32:54,320 --> 01:32:51,810
space station crew has to exercise two

1665
01:32:57,410 --> 01:32:54,330
hours a day which is pretty boring and

1666
01:32:58,760 --> 01:32:57,420
they just not have to you know sit on

1667
01:33:01,280 --> 01:32:58,770
one machine they have to use several

1668
01:33:02,780 --> 01:33:01,290
machines in order to get aerobics and an

1669
01:33:05,570 --> 01:33:02,790
aerobics and so on it's pretty

1670
01:33:07,390 --> 01:33:05,580
sophisticated and they have stayed up

1671
01:33:10,970 --> 01:33:07,400
there for many months without any

1672
01:33:13,820 --> 01:33:10,980
detrimental results so it works and one

1673
01:33:15,380 --> 01:33:13,830
guy won a Russian Polyakov doctor polio

1674
01:33:18,260 --> 01:33:15,390
coffee estates there for the duration of

1675
01:33:21,260 --> 01:33:18,270
a mouse slide in beer in came back and

1676
01:33:23,660 --> 01:33:21,270
still jumping around you know so I think

1677
01:33:38,939 --> 01:33:23,670
that basically you may not need it but

1678
01:33:44,939 --> 01:33:42,520
that was a mistake I you know it's a

1679
01:33:47,919 --> 01:33:44,949
typically now so you know in a naive way

1680
01:33:49,870 --> 01:33:47,929
the the guys there the ACI guy said hey

1681
01:33:51,939 --> 01:33:49,880
Gaza tell us how much it's going to cost

1682
01:33:54,339 --> 01:33:51,949
and so now sup you know being good

1683
01:33:58,660 --> 01:33:54,349
soldiers came up and said always worried

1684
01:34:01,810 --> 01:33:58,670
about 400 to 500 billion you know sure I

1685
01:34:03,790 --> 01:34:01,820
mean this you know you could have found

1686
01:34:05,680 --> 01:34:03,800
to find a different way so it would have

1687
01:34:09,310 --> 01:34:05,690
caused it but so what I mean over 30

1688
01:34:11,229 --> 01:34:09,320
years and you should include also the

1689
01:34:13,209 --> 01:34:11,239
returns in the meantime is also the

1690
01:34:16,000 --> 01:34:13,219
years you do get returns back so it's

1691
01:34:17,879 --> 01:34:16,010
not a closed expenditure thing where you

1692
01:34:21,100 --> 01:34:17,889
pull out 400 million and give it away

1693
01:34:23,709 --> 01:34:21,110
its investments you know with paychecks

1694
01:34:26,549 --> 01:34:23,719
and and so on so it's not sewing money

1695
01:34:30,850 --> 01:34:26,559
out into space but those decision-makers

1696
01:34:34,479 --> 01:34:30,860
here in Washington kind of floored by it

1697
01:34:39,430 --> 01:34:34,489
and NASA always makes the same mistakes

1698
01:34:42,819 --> 01:34:39,440
of not properly telling you know what

1699
01:34:44,589 --> 01:34:42,829
what's what and and we are very bad in

1700
01:34:47,200 --> 01:34:44,599
that area we may be great scientists and

1701
01:34:49,600 --> 01:34:47,210
engineers and in program managers but

1702
01:34:53,470 --> 01:34:49,610
somehow we cannot properly explain what

1703
01:34:55,209 --> 01:34:53,480
it is all about who would I mean who in

1704
01:34:58,029 --> 01:34:55,219
NASA would they are talking about common

1705
01:35:00,700 --> 01:34:58,039
cause with Russia it hope but I think

1706
01:35:02,979 --> 01:35:00,710
it's something or China sums up these

1707
01:35:05,919 --> 01:35:02,989
things need to be now faced upfront

1708
01:35:08,850 --> 01:35:05,929
otherwise we won't go anywhere in my

1709
01:35:13,120 --> 01:35:08,860
opinion so now that should in my opinion

1710
01:35:16,540 --> 01:35:13,130
learn from those past naive mistakes

1711
01:35:20,620 --> 01:35:16,550
where you know we try to you know kind

1712
01:35:22,450 --> 01:35:20,630
of be nice and and go back and iterate

1713
01:35:26,259 --> 01:35:22,460
so started all the way back down to what

1714
01:35:27,970 --> 01:35:26,269
it is now we wait were times when we

1715
01:35:30,040 --> 01:35:27,980
probably could have stemmed our foot and

1716
01:35:31,359 --> 01:35:30,050
said hey wait a minute if you cut us

1717
01:35:33,189 --> 01:35:31,369
even more with the shuttle we are

1718
01:35:35,740 --> 01:35:33,199
getting into dangerous areas of but we

1719
01:35:37,720 --> 01:35:35,750
never did you know we got through the

1720
01:35:41,319 --> 01:35:37,730
solid boosters because they looked

1721
01:35:45,040 --> 01:35:41,329
cheaper at that time and did away with

1722
01:35:47,439 --> 01:35:45,050
most of the reusability so away you know

1723
01:35:49,209 --> 01:35:47,449
the tanks and so on the tank was

1724
01:35:51,480 --> 01:35:49,219
supposed to be cheap but it turned out

1725
01:35:54,100 --> 01:35:51,490
to be about two billion or so Appy

1726
01:35:59,600 --> 01:35:54,110
later on so all of those nice

1727
01:36:38,990 --> 01:35:59,610
predictions wherever just pie in the sky

1728
01:36:43,790 --> 01:36:41,630
back in the 50s when he did that that

1729
01:36:48,020 --> 01:36:43,800
giant study know that he didn't attach

1730
01:36:50,570 --> 01:36:48,030
any years to that he went out and made a

1731
01:36:53,020 --> 01:36:50,580
cost estimate I mean this was all mr.

1732
01:36:56,930 --> 01:36:53,030
technology he used for a Mars expedition

1733
01:36:59,990 --> 01:36:56,940
imagine v2 engines 12 of them in each

1734
01:37:01,880 --> 01:37:00,000
that boosts into Mars there was no way

1735
01:37:03,800 --> 01:37:01,890
he reasonably could have put any dollars

1736
01:37:07,870 --> 01:37:03,810
to it but he said it's gonna cost about

1737
01:37:10,730 --> 01:37:07,880
10 billion airlifts you know that most

1738
01:37:13,220 --> 01:37:10,740
something people understood so he went

1739
01:37:14,990 --> 01:37:13,230
and said hey guys it may sound a lot but

1740
01:37:17,270 --> 01:37:15,000
look I'll give you ten ships you know

1741
01:37:19,910 --> 01:37:17,280
it's a your expedition it's earth it's

1742
01:37:35,670 --> 01:37:19,920
mankind doing it and it's going to cost

1743
01:37:35,680 --> 01:37:45,870
oh yeah

1744
01:37:53,890 --> 01:37:51,400
exactly exactly I think I think even

1745
01:37:55,930 --> 01:37:53,900
even Reagan realized pretty late then

1746
01:37:57,340 --> 01:37:55,940
that the SDI didn't go anywhere and all

1747
01:37:59,410 --> 01:37:57,350
the scientists told him hey it's not

1748
01:38:01,420 --> 01:37:59,420
going to work better stations in orbit

1749
01:38:03,340 --> 01:38:01,430
and the Russians were already doing

1750
01:38:08,620 --> 01:38:03,350
their own better station development so

1751
01:38:13,540 --> 01:38:08,630
this was a totally insane idea which was

1752
01:38:15,760 --> 01:38:13,550
kind of typically Hollywood yeah and so

1753
01:38:18,580 --> 01:38:15,770
what Bush who was the vice president at

1754
01:38:20,020 --> 01:38:18,590
a time when he became president he was

1755
01:38:23,080 --> 01:38:20,030
pretty smart I don't know who came up

1756
01:38:25,230 --> 01:38:23,090
with earlier but he said okay that's

1757
01:38:28,240 --> 01:38:25,240
great we got all these industries now

1758
01:38:30,720 --> 01:38:28,250
fired up worked for everything is

1759
01:38:33,790 --> 01:38:30,730
everyone is doing STI why don't we just

1760
01:38:37,810 --> 01:38:33,800
slightly shift it and make a CI out of

1761
01:38:40,600 --> 01:38:37,820
it lost much Martin it's so silly that

1762
01:38:44,050 --> 01:38:40,610
this whole is se I went away it was such

1763
01:38:49,180 --> 01:38:44,060
a great idea and this 400 to 500 billion

1764
01:38:50,590 --> 01:38:49,190
killed it that the costing thing but

1765
01:38:52,750 --> 01:38:50,600
it's essentially what will be done

1766
01:38:55,390 --> 01:38:52,760
anyway the same with the integrated

1767
01:38:57,340 --> 01:38:55,400
program plan instead of doing things in

1768
01:38:59,890 --> 01:38:57,350
parallel like Miller and from brown

1769
01:39:01,720 --> 01:38:59,900
bonded because of commonality we are

1770
01:39:03,610 --> 01:39:01,730
doing the same things but in secret in

1771
01:39:04,840 --> 01:39:03,620
sequence one after the other we're

1772
01:39:06,730 --> 01:39:04,850
building a shout later we're building

1773
01:39:09,190 --> 01:39:06,740
space station and doing one after the

1774
01:39:10,390 --> 01:39:09,200
other which of course means every time

1775
01:39:12,670 --> 01:39:10,400
we hope to have to go back to our

1776
01:39:18,730 --> 01:39:12,680
drawing boards and start all over again

1777
01:39:21,719 --> 01:39:18,740
instead of having commonality you had no

1778
01:39:36,310 --> 01:39:30,790
ok anywhere any other questions dan but

1779
01:39:42,360 --> 01:39:36,320
you're Chris I need that guy from my